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Do you have some link to back up the claims? Elon has never waivered on his stance of opening the supercharger network to any EV manufacturer AFAIK. In fact there's a rumor that talks are ongoing with a major player. Also, the Tesla mission statement is to “accelerate the advent of sustainable transport by bringing compelling mass-market electric cars to market as soon as possible.”
Seems to me, that would trump your concerns of Tesla's value. To further discredit your anti-Tesla rant, he has opened up all patents to any responsible manufacturer.
"Tesla will not initiate patent lawsuits against anyone who, in good faith, wants to use our technology."
https://www.tesla.com/blog/all-our-patent-are-belong-you
Elon has publicly stated that he could give a rats ass what Wall Street says so it's not about the money. We're not talking about GM here.
Dyefrog...

What kind of kool aid are you drinking? Elon is a MASTER MARKETEER! If Elon had the intentions you described, he would have already opened up his network to others and happily charged for it.

I do not dislike Tesla...you have me wrong. BUT...and I really mean BUT...when you make promises to people, take their money and clearly change the game as you go...like my two Model 3 reservations for the $35,000 model that i have been waiting for 2 years only to be told it will now be closer to 3 and the tax credit will be long gone even though i was in line at the beginning AND Elon did say deliveries from west to east...(but we now know that is not true) and I could keep going...

Now we are beginning to hear of the atrocious build quality of the Model 3...lack of service and parts availability....and it is clear this Model 3 rollout is a complete train wreck.

And if he didn't care about the money...why does he keep asking for more?

Clearly, something is very, very wrong here...already talking of the Model Y, semi and roadster 2.0 and can`t even build a decent Model 3 in reasonable numbers?

Lets call a spade a spade...if GM sent out Bolts in the same condition that Tesla is sending out Model 3's, it would be in every major newspaper around the world in 10 minutes...GM would be a complete laughing stock and every board member of GM would be fired by the end of the business day.

I'm not a Tesla hater but come on man, how many "get out of jail" free cards can you give Elon and Tesla..

Deliver what you promise (like GM did) and quit taking your customers for fools.

There are TONS of pissed off people out there like me...but nobody wants to talk about it. It didn't have to be that way if someone didn't have so much "hubris"...and just did what they promised.

Go back and watch the Model 3 grand event from 2 years ago...listen closely to what he said, promised and compare that to what he plans on delivering now...3/4 of it is pure BS.
 

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There are no hotel rooms within fifty miles of Blacksburg on a game night, so we went around the corner to the police station and rang the bell. After explaining our situation, the dispatcher buzzed us in. We hung around for 20 minutes, while the friendly policeman made some calls, to check out the rules on this. It turns out, they could tow the SUV, if the sign had said, Towing Enforced, but it didn't. Worse yet, the city actually rented out the parking spots to reservation holders. The city had rented out the only EV fast charging space in a hundred miles to a football fan...in an SUV!! I asked if I could park on the street, at the curb, facing the wrong way, and charge. They were fine with that. We walked back to the charger to check out the situation. The cord would never reach, but the officer said I could drive over the curb, onto the sidewalk, if I had enough ground clearance. No chance there. The curbs were pretty high, and square edged. Luckily, there was no curb at the entrance to the parking lot. and I was able to drive directly up the sidewalk from the end, and there was just enough room between a young tree, and a sign post, with the mirrors folded in, to get to the charger. We wanted to charge for more than an hour to get enough to make it home safely, but the crowd started rolling out, so we pulled the plug and made a run for it.
Like I said, the early adopters are the real heroes in this story.
 

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Tesla mission statement:
“to accelerate the advent of sustainable transport by bringing compelling mass market electric cars to market as soon as possible”.

He should just say “Done”. After all, didn’t one of the biggest worldwide auto corporations just say “all electric future” ? The world will continue to say “Thank You” to Telsa. And he can move on to the next mission whatever tickles his fancy. With the prospect of easily raising capital for whatever he wants to do next.

Unless he wishes to throttle back and live in “production ****” in perpetuity. Or maybe he just wants to watch as the pack of wolves circle closer and closer before his automotive investments get ground down or torn apart. Charging network included.
 

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Tesla mission statement:
“to accelerate the advent of sustainable transport by bringing compelling mass market electric cars to market as soon as possible”.

He should just say “Done”. After all, didn’t one of the biggest worldwide auto corporations just say “all electric future” ? The world will continue to say “Thank You” to Telsa. And he can move on to the next mission whatever tickles his fancy. With the prospect of easily raising capital for whatever he wants to do next.

Unless he wishes to throttle back and live in “production ****” in perpetuity. Or maybe he just wants to watch as the pack of wolves circle closer and closer before his automotive investments get ground down or torn apart. Charging network included.
Basically, Tesla is a successful brand with a hard core following. Their strength is in design concepts, not actual production, sales and support of product. It is pretty clear to me what their priorities as a company are. They design and demonstrate the future. They are not that interested in being the future.

I predict that at some point Elon will get bored with vehicles, solar panels and "production ****" then focus on getting to Mars. Without Elon at the helm, Tesla will collapse fast and the brand will be acquired by a Chinese capital company for pennies on the dollar. What happens after that to the brand is anybody's guess. Likely plodding along in mediocrity.
 

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Edit: I just saw another thread where this comment is just as valid (if not more so) and have cross-posted. Followups should prob be made on the other thread ...

Post 15 in this thread : http://www.chevybolt.org/forum/82-charging-batteries/25897-bolt-charging-tesla-sc-2.html



Tesla has no competition... where it counts...charging infrastructure.

{... lots deleted ...}

Tesla has banks of Superchargers every 120 miles up and down all the interstates around here now. That is worth more than any car, from any company.
I know that I would happily pay $0.75/kWh to use the supercharger network, as needed. Why? Because if I were fine with the idea of paying that much, then I really needed the charge and would be happy to be able to get it.

If Musk were serious about wanting electric vehicles to proliferate, he would make it possible for everyone to use the supercharger network - not for free, but for a price (an expensive price). It is obvious that a CHAdeMO adaptor is pretty easily done (since they sell one already, albeit in the other direction). For CCS charging, it would probably be necessary to modify actual chargers, adding software (and plugs) to comply with CCS. Maybe just one or two station per "universal" supercharger site (they work in pairs, right)? Heck, the new software could even be programmed to give priority to Teslas (on each pair of chargers, max charge rate for the Tesla with the remaining trickle available for the CCS/CHAdeMO).

Heck, he could even sell it as "getting other people paying for your supercharger network" (since said charging would be at a much, much higher rate than Tesla customers pay).

Instead, he keeps the network closed - when it could easily be opened (for a price). Instead, it is just a marketing spiel "gee, I'll open it if other vendors pay me". Both CCS and CHAdeMO are international standards, not owned by anyone. The Tesla supercharger spec is corporate intellectual property.
 

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Sounds like it's time for a "Tons of Pissed Off Model 3 Reservation Holders" forum so we can get a more accurate count on the "tons" portion of your post.
Assuming an average American weight is just shy of 200 lbs, that would be just over 10 people. :p

I could see people being angry with Tesla. Those who view the Model 3 more as a tech gadget might not mind the delay so much, but those who have planned on replacing a vehicle at a set timeframe might be faced with renewing a lease or purchasing another car while they wait for their turn at taking delivery.

Depends on how you define early adoption.

This is a widely referenced technology adoption curve that considers the first 16% to be early adopters. Aren't we at 2% EV sales compared to total vehicle sales volume?



I tend to purchase at the tail end of the early adopters, which is why I don't have a BEV yet.
 

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Discussion Starter #30
Depends on how you define early adoption.

This is a widely referenced technology adoption curve that considers the first 16% to be early adopters.
By that standard Prius owners are at the bleeding edge. :)

"Hybrid sales in the American market achieved its highest market share ever in 2013, capturing 3.19% of new car sales that year. At the end of 2015 the hybrid take rate had fallen to 2.21%, and dropped to 1.85% for hybrid sales between January and April 2016."
 

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If Musk were serious about wanting electric vehicles to proliferate, he would make it possible for everyone to use the supercharger network - not for free, but for a price (an expensive price). ...

Heck, he could even sell it as "getting other people paying for your supercharger network" (since said charging would be at a much, much higher rate than Tesla customers pay).

Instead, he keeps the network closed - when it could easily be opened (for a price). Instead, it is just a marketing spiel "gee, I'll open it if other vendors pay me". Both CCS and CHAdeMO are international standards, not owned by anyone. The Tesla supercharger spec is corporate intellectual property.
Agreed. I have been saying this for a long time now. Mr. Musk does not truly believe a lot of the stuff he says. Actions speak louder than words... unless you have drunk the Kool Aid, then Elon's words become gospel, fact and ultimate truth.
 

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Edit: I just saw another thread where this comment is just as valid (if not more so) and have cross-posted. Followups should prob be made on the other thread ...

Post 15 in this thread : http://www.chevybolt.org/forum/82-charging-batteries/25897-bolt-charging-tesla-sc-2.html





I know that I would happily pay $0.75/kWh to use the supercharger network, as needed. Why? Because if I were fine with the idea of paying that much, then I really needed the charge and would be happy to be able to get it.

If Musk were serious about wanting electric vehicles to proliferate, he would make it possible for everyone to use the supercharger network - not for free, but for a price (an expensive price). It is obvious that a CHAdeMO adaptor is pretty easily done (since they sell one already, albeit in the other direction). For CCS charging, it would probably be necessary to modify actual chargers, adding software (and plugs) to comply with CCS. Maybe just one or two station per "universal" supercharger site (they work in pairs, right)? Heck, the new software could even be programmed to give priority to Teslas (on each pair of chargers, max charge rate for the Tesla with the remaining trickle available for the CCS/CHAdeMO).

Heck, he could even sell it as "getting other people paying for your supercharger network" (since said charging would be at a much, much higher rate than Tesla customers pay).

Instead, he keeps the network closed - when it could easily be opened (for a price). Instead, it is just a marketing spiel "gee, I'll open it if other vendors pay me". Both CCS and CHAdeMO are international standards, not owned by anyone. The Tesla supercharger spec is corporate intellectual property.
I've posted the source that claims the network is open. For the third time, would someone please post a source that states it's not? Otherwise your opinions have no substance or credibility. Your choice.
 

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I've posted the source that claims the network is open. For the third time, would someone please post a source that states it's not? Otherwise your opinions have no substance or credibility. Your choice.
The Tesla Supercharging network is open to all?

That’s fantastic news!

I’m heading over to the nearest Tesla station right now with my Bolt to hook-up and get a full charge!

Wish me luck!
 

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If Bolts, Leafs, i3's, Ioniqs and other entries in the EV market are going to really take off, there will simply have to be a quick-charging network in place to service the needs of those vehicles. Those installing charging stations will have to do one of the following:

A. Install more quick-charging stalls at each location, or
B. Install at more locations.
 

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Discussion Starter #35
As near as I can tell from the low resolution map I was able to find for Electrify America. They will be putting these 150 kW chargers in places that already have all the 50 kW fast chargers. I still won't be able to drive from central Virginia to Rochester, NY with DC fast chargers.
 

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The Tesla Supercharging network is open to all?

That’s fantastic news!

I’m heading over to the nearest Tesla station right now with my Bolt to hook-up and get a full charge!

Wish me luck!
You Bolt owners should put together a petition and send it on to Tesla and call their bluff. I'd be curious to see their response.
 

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You Bolt owners should put together a petition and send it on to Tesla and call their bluff. I'd be curious to see their response.
I’m willing to share my Bolt with anyone, just as Elon is willing to share the Tesla charging network with anyone.

Of course, I’ll just need anyone interested in using my Bolt to agree to my terms...

I’m sure that’s just a minor detail.

All kidding aside, I just don’t see that it’s in Tesla’s interest to open up the Supercharger network. It’s a huge selling feature for Tesla, and it’s certainly no accident that Tesla uses proprietary charging connections.

While all EV users would benefit from an open network, I don’t think that there’s any valid business reason for Tesla to share it, at least not at this time. With plans to build a half-million Teslas PER YEAR, those chargers will have plenty of business without needing to open the network. Most of those Tesla owners will have Model 3s, and they will all be paying to use the chargers.
 

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Am I missing something?

Various contributors to this thread criticize Elon for hubris/misinformation/being a charlatan, then want to engage with him over use of a Supercharging network that his company, and his ALONE, was willing to invest in? If he is the devil (or some corporate version of the same), you do know what happens when you strike a deal with him, right?

For the record, before Tesla was any serious threat to the legacy automakers, Musk approached the Big 3 in Detroit about cooperating on an EV charging network in the US with a uniform plugin standard; in other words, invest in the future of automotive transport. He was laughed out of the room.

Somebody had a vision. Others are being forced to acknowledge that vision.
 

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Am I missing something?

Various contributors to this thread criticize Elon for hubris/misinformation/being a charlatan, then want to engage with him over use of a Supercharging network that his company, and his ALONE, was willing to invest in? If he is the devil (or some corporate version of the same), you do know what happens when you strike a deal with him, right?

For the record, before Tesla was any serious threat to the legacy automakers, Musk approached the Big 3 in Detroit about cooperating on an EV charging network in the US with a uniform plugin standard; in other words, invest in the future of automotive transport. He was laughed out of the room.

Somebody had a vision. Others are being forced to acknowledge that vision.
I believe that Tesla’s offer to share the charging network should not be taken at face value. I certainly don’t blame Tesla for having the foresight to build a robust network, nor do I blame Tesla for not wanting to share a proprietary network that’s a major selling point for Tesla owners. If Tesla succeeds with the Model 3 there may very well be over a million Teslas using that network in just a couple of years.

Bravo, Elon!

Now, as for sharing, Tesla simply doesn’t need to negotiate with other manufacturers, the charging network could be opened to all EV owners, bypassing manufacturers completely. That option is up to Tesla and Tesla alone, and it would be another step towards Elon’s stated goal of bringing affordable EV transportation to all.

Sometimes lofty goals and practical business decisions don’t mesh easily. If I were the Tesla CFO I would recommend against opening up the charging network, at least for the immediate future.
 

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Am I missing something?

Various contributors to this thread criticize Elon for hubris/misinformation/being a charlatan, then want to engage with him over use of a Supercharging network that his company, and his ALONE, was willing to invest in? If he is the devil (or some corporate version of the same), you do know what happens when you strike a deal with him, right?

For the record, before Tesla was any serious threat to the legacy automakers, Musk approached the Big 3 in Detroit about cooperating on an EV charging network in the US with a uniform plugin standard; in other words, invest in the future of automotive transport. He was laughed out of the room.

Somebody had a vision. Others are being forced to acknowledge that vision.
Standard tactic here - change the argument.

First claim : Musk promised (or wants to) open up the supercharger network, but other manufacturers will have to pay. Push back: marketing speak, he doesn't need to have manufacturer do anything (the other manufacturers use a standard), he knew he would never have to do this and wasn't serious about it, and he can simply charge any PERSON who wants to use it a (large) surcharge. {Note: this is the push-back - at this point here, I am not addressing the truth of any of it.}

Result: Oops, the push-back makes too much sense, let's change the argument, and make it sound the same, or very similar, and make THAT point (i.e., a "straw man"). So now it's "Elon doesn't HAVE to, and why should he, he tried and they shamed him, and he was the visionary anyways, because he was first!". (He wasn't the first, BTW.)

Sorry, no cigar for that. Elon made a public claim/statement/offer, only people drinking the Tesla KoolAid believe it. We don't believe it because (a) it really doesn't make sense for Tesla, and (b) he doesn't need *any* manufacturer to do it: charge an EV owner (lots and lots).

So, *does* Elon owe any (non-Tesla) EV driver any access to his SC network? Of course not - but that wasn't the claim being pushed - that is the one that was trotted out when the original claim was shown to be the smelly mass of effluent that it actually is. Tesla could and can open the SC network at any time they choose. In fact, if Elon is the visionary people claim, and his interest is really in saving the planet, the "opened SC sites" could *ONLY* be those useful for inter-city travel along major routes, far from large population centres, where there are holes in the non-Tesla DCFC networks. Just opening (say) 50 sites would make a HUGE difference in travel between Chicago/ St Louis/ Indianapolis/ Nahville/ Atlanta and the East Coast as well as Salt Lake City/ Denver/ Albuquerque/ Phoenix and the West Coast.
 
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