[Needfourspeed]

I have seen two items on the internet that I would like to understand better.
1. A company (electrek) has produced a Tesla Supercharger DC type to CCS 1 adapter. Does this work with a 2020 Bolt? And available in the US?
2. Tesla announced for S. Korea an adapter for CCS 1 will the be in USA as well? And is that Tesla to CCS 1?
Thanks for any help.

 

[ARob]

The only Tesla to Bolt adapters are Level 2 for Destination chargers which convert Tesla to J1772.

There are a couple of CCS1 to Tesla adapters that would allow Teslas to use CCS1, but not the other way around. The thing is, Tesla prevents any car from charging on their network unless it is a Tesla. This is true even in EU where CCS2 is used on Tesla and some SC plugs are CCS2. Third party cars could use those for a few days due to a "bug" in the software that Tesla fixed promptly.

With J1772 and CCS1 growing as rapidly as they are, the need to use Tesla plugs is nowhere near as necessary as in the past.

 

[ga2500ev]

I have seen two items on the internet that I would like to understand better.
1. A company (electrek) has produced a Tesla Supercharger DC type to CCS 1 adapter. Does this work with a 2020 Bolt? And available in the US?
2. Tesla announced for S. Korea an adapter for CCS 1 will the be in USA as well? And is that Tesla to CCS 1?
Thanks for any help.

Tesla is never going to allow any EV other than Teslas charge at their SuperChargers. Look no farther than the fact that Europe essentially forced Tesla to CCS2, that Tesla put CCS2 cables on their Superchargers in Europe, and that non Teslas cannot use those CCS2 cables to charge.

Do you have a link to #1? I severely doubt that unit is what you think it may be.

ga2500ev

 

[The Other Tom]

2. Tesla announced for S. Korea an adapter for CCS 1 will the be in USA as well? And is that Tesla to CCS 1?

Tesla has not announced any information other than the original announcement that you saw. That means it's not available in Korea or anywhere else. And that adapter is the other way around....CCS 1 to Tesla, which would allow Teslas to use EA and other CCS-1 chargers. I think Tesla made that announcement because a Tesla club in Korea announced they had developed one and would sell it under the Seatec brand. The Seatec adapter is selling and it mostly works but seems to be limited to 50kW. And to complete the adapter story, there is a ChaDeMo adapter sold by Tesla so that they can use ChaDeMo chargers. It, too, is limited to 50kW.

 

[ga2500ev]

Note the theme: Tesla expands such that Teslas can use more charging stations. No expansion at all such that non-Teslas can use SuperChargers. That's how it's always been. And likely that's how it will remain.

ga2500ev

 

[ARob]

Note the theme: Tesla expands such that Teslas can use more charging stations. No expansion at all such that non-Teslas can use SuperChargers. That's how it's always been. And likely that's how it will remain.

ga2500ev

Current counts for DC Charging:

US + Canada: CCS = 4164 stations, 7369 outlets. Tesla = 1074 stations, 10,567 outlets.
US: CCS = 3338 stations, 6174 outlets. Tesla = 970 stations, 9577 outlets.
Source: Alternative Fuels Data Center

Granted, SC has a better reputation for reliability, and is often faster. The statistics suggest it is perhaps becoming easier to travel in a CCS equipped EV than in a Tesla. Tesla has done a better job of strategically placing sites with fewer gaps than CCS, but that seems to be changing as well.

With EVGo adding Tesla plugs nationwide per recent announcements, maybe Tesla owners will find that to be a good second option for charging. Given what I have observed, Tesla owners will stick to the SC sites except in a pinch, and EVGo tends to be more of an Urban than Interstate network.

What will be interesting is to see how the new administration will proceed with their 500K EV charging plug initiative. Will it be CCS\J1772 only? Will they help Tesla as well?

 

[Coastal_Cruiser]

Unfortunately the opposite is happening. EVGO is retrofitting their chargers with Tesla connectors. That's in addition to the adapter Tesla owners can already buy that lets them charge at CCS stations. I'm starting to see Tesla's plug into the only CCS station in town when a supercharger is 5 minutes down the freeway.

 

[ARob]

Unfortunately the opposite is happening. EVGO is retrofitting their chargers with Tesla connectors. That's in addition to the adapter Tesla owners can already buy that lets them charge at CCS stations. I'm starting to see Tesla's plug into the only CCS station in town when a supercharger is 5 minutes down the freeway.

Tesla owners seem pretty loyal, if there is a SC site close by, they will tend to choose that site over an EVGo.

 

[NortonCommando]

EVGO is retrofitting their chargers with Tesla connectors. ...I'm starting to see Tesla's plug into the only CCS station in town when a supercharger is 5 minutes down the freeway.

Well, it probably depends on the cost of the electrons between the 2 DCFC choices, if the Tesla is not in a hurry.
What would you do?

 

[Needfourspeed]

Thanks much for all the comments. It is clear that Tesla is trying to hold control of the EV market through charger control. Again thanks for all the info.

 

[ARob]

Thanks much for all the comments. It is clear that Tesla is trying to hold control of the EV market through charger control. Again thanks for all the info.

I wouldn't classify it as that sinister. Tesla built their network using a proprietary plug, which was a bit of a gamble initially when Model S arrived on the scene. At the time, CHAdeMO was the most common public DCFC but they saw that as awkward. CCS was being standardized at the time, but Tesla knew that to promote EV sales, they had to build a network.

They have paid for it all, claim to have offered to allow others to use the network provided they comply with a variety of requirements. One requirement was car makers helping to pay for building out the network. Nobody bought in, CCS became the defacto standard, and Tesla just kept moving forward. At this point, while maybe not an ideal situation, we have two incompatible networks that mostly meet their owners needs. It will probably remain this way indefinitely as there are costs associated with change.

As public funds are being pledged to build out networks, the politics are going to be interesting. Subsidizing Tesla charging, exclusive of all other brands would be a hard sell. Tesla owners are proud of their "superior" solution, but as the numbers climb and queues grow at SC sites, Tesla is going to need to add plugs and sites to keep up with growth.

I kind of expect federal efforts might step back a little and deal with site infrastructure needs such as grid connections and local storage, as well as site availability such as federal highway right of way, rest stops, etc. Then, allow companies to bid on installing chargers at the locations, with maybe some cost sharing. In this arrangement, it would be possible for both Tesla, and CCS networks to install plugs at the sites with some financial assistance from DC. That would probably sit well with the public, it is not favoring one over the other.

If Tesla falls behind on site installs, owners will flow over to the CCS\CHAdeMO sites. That might also put pressure on Tesla to adopt native CCS charge ports like in EU. In the long term, we need enough plugs for both, and it is a bit more complicated by the incompatibility. But, it could work if both Tesla, and CCS networks keep up with demand.

 

[NortonCommando]

....It is clear that Tesla is trying to hold control of the EV market through charger control.

I don't know bout that....
They are keeping their proprietary chargers, just that. What would you do?
And possibly giving their owners added choices, someday.
CCS cars have one choice for DCFC.

 

[Needfourspeed]

For both sides by allowing and promoting adapters going both ways the network is equally available for all EVs. If a standard like CCS wins over time it would not matter because all chargers could be used by most EVs. By not letting adapters be used is a business move of exclusivity and keeps the market more in Tesla’s favor since they provide a CCS to Tesla adapter. But won’t allow a Tesla to CCS adapter.

 

[Sean Nelson]

Tesla owners seem pretty loyal, if there is a SC site close by, they will tend to choose that site over an EVGo.

At least in part because they don't have an EVGo account or the other five dozen accounts you need to access all the other charging networks.

 

[Colt Hero]

Note the theme: Tesla expands such that Teslas can use more charging stations. No expansion at all such that non-Teslas can use SuperChargers. That's how it's always been. And likely that's how it will remain.

ga2500ev

I’m gonna predict Tesla will eventually sell off their entire charging network ... probably to Big Oil! How would you like that? Then all the Tesla stations will become MobilExxon and the two charging models will begin to melt into one.

Musk had to create the SC network to support his vehicles, but with each passing day it becomes less and less necessary, and more and more of a nuisance to him.

 

[ARob]

I’m gonna predict Tesla will eventually sell off their entire charging network ... probably to Big Oil! How would you like that? Then all the Tesla stations will become MobilExxon and the two charging models will begin to melt into one.

Musk had to create the SC network to support his vehicles, but with each passing day it becomes less and less necessary, and more and more of a nuisance to him.

You may be right. With~60% of EV on the road Tesla’s, and CCS surpassing Tesla, SC may be on its way to becoming a liability to Tesla.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Coastal_Cruiser]

Well, it probably depends on the cost of the electrons between the 2 DCFC choices, if the Tesla is not in a hurry.
What would you do?

NortonCommando? I used to have a Norton Commando. Anyway, the Superchargers are generally less expensive. Regardless, knowing what I know about the number of DCFC's chargers, which are still in short supply, I wold be very circumspect with my Tesla charging at one. Especially with a 14 stall supercharger nearby that non-Telsa's can't touch.

 

[NewsCoulomb]

Regardless, knowing what I know about the number of DCFC's chargers, which are still in short supply, I wold be very circumspect with my Tesla charging at one. Especially with a 14 stall supercharger nearby that non-Telsa's can't touch.

I'm not sure what you mean by short supply. Tesla Superchargers are outnumbered in total number of sites and (outside of a few key travel corridors and metropolitan regions) overall charger counts. The CHAdeMO adapters were very popular early on for a reason, and it's because the public charging infrastructure filled in a number of significant gaps in the Tesla Supercharger Network.

That being said, I think the true reasons most Tesla owners avoid public chargers are a lack of ability (i.e., no adapter) and a lack of knowledge (not being informed by the Tesla system that non-Tesla chargers are installed and available). I regularly see posts in Tesla groups where confused owners do not even know that there are other charging standards or why their Tesla can't use them.

For me, ultimately, my expectations for the trip dictate where I stop and charge. I'm fully aware of where most Superchargers along my routes are located, and occasionally, they would make more preferable stopping locations. I can't imagine how they are always the ideal locations for Tesla owners driving those routes, and I, personally, would be a bit unnerved by only having those locations as options for recharging along the route.

***

As for the greater conversation, I do think that Tesla's keeping the Superchargers closed is misguided. It's not necessarily nefarious (as others have stated), but I do think that they erroneously believe that the Supercharger Network gives them some sort of a sales advantage. However, it clearly does not based solely on the rampant ignorance we see about the public and private DC charging infrastructure from both Tesla and non-Tesla EV customers.

Only about half of Americans regularly take trips long enough to require charging away from home, and while the other half that do might prefer a Tesla over other non-Tesla EV options at present, we have to remember that pure EVs still only represent about 2% of the U.S. automotive marketshare. By the time EVs represent enough of the market to really matter, we might see a complete shift in the way people interact with public (or private) DC fast charging.

 

[Coastal_Cruiser]

I'm not sure what you mean by short supply. Tesla Superchargers are outnumbered in total number of sites and (outside of a few key travel corridors and metropolitan regions) overall charger counts.

That being said, I think the true reasons most Tesla owners avoid public chargers are a lack of ability (i.e., no adapter) and a lack of knowledge (not being informed by the Tesla system that non-Tesla chargers are installed and available).

As for the greater conversation, I do think that Tesla's keeping the Superchargers closed is misguided. It's not necessarily nefarious (as others have stated), but I do think that they erroneously believe that the Supercharger Network gives them some sort of a sales advantage. However, it clearly does not based solely on the rampant ignorance we see about the public and private DC charging infrastructure from both Tesla and non-Tesla EV customers.

"Relatively short supply" may have been better phrasing. And I'm referring to direct experience, the locales I drive in. Example, I was spending some time in Santa Barbara this past fall. There is a Tesla Supercharger with a bunch of stations, that seems to never be full. There is one single EVZO DCFC with two stations serving the entire city, and the 101 corridor that runs through town. That was one time I was "blocked" by a Tesla, even though the SC was 5 minutes away. The story from the driver was that she never wanted to supercharge her car for fear of shortening the battery life.

At the same EVGO station I spotted a Tesla circling the station and went to say hello. The driver had been informed by the car that there was a charger there. The confusion for the driver was not about if the car could charge at the EVGO spot, it was that the display on her car didn't seem to have differentiated. So Tesla drivers are being told about the DCFCs.

In another case, this time the Santa Ynez Valley, a Tesla was charging at the only L2 charger in one of the townships. The driver's point of view was that "there is no SC in this town", in spite of the fact that in the adjoining township 7 minutes away there was an SC. Another locale that was short of fast chargers was Paso Robles. Thankfully Electrify America has got a station in. As you know, things are changing, but in my world simply a single broken EVGO station can put a crimp in my recharging plans. And unlike Tesla SCs, EVGO has not gotten an A+ for speedy station repairs.

So, my point simply is, I am seeing more and more of that happening. And my take is that it is happening because Tesla drivers don't seem to know that DC fast chargers are still not in that plentiful supply (on my driving routes).

Finally, and you may well know this, Tesla claims to have offered SC access to other brand EVs, but that no one took them up on the offer. As recently as last year Elon Musk was quoted as still offering such a partnership. I don't know which party is not acting in good faith to make a deal, and Elon can be terribly sketchy, but he does seem to believe in his core position to speed the adoption of electric cars. But who knows?

 

[Fivedoor]

I’m gonna predict Tesla will eventually sell off their entire charging network ... probably to Big Oil! How would you like that? Then all the Tesla stations will become MobilExxon and the two charging models will begin to melt into one.

Musk had to create the SC network to support his vehicles, but with each passing day it becomes less and less necessary, and more and more of a nuisance to him.

He had an opportunity (short lived) to offer Tesla to CCS adapters to make the Supercharger network the charging standard for long distance travel for the entire EV using population of the country, instead he chose to go with a walled garden for Tesla vehicles only. Now with Electrify America the opportunity to be the charging standard for the nation is gone.

Keith