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Yes it can, at about 55 kW peak.
Which was my earlier point. Tesla will not agree to a charging arrangement with cars like the Bolt because they charge too slowly. For Tesla it is a QOS thing; they do not want the congestion.
That makes sense... to have their SC clogged with Bolts would be really bad. However, I think it would be fair if Tesla allows 1/4 of their stalls to be used by non-Tesla instead.
 

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However, I think it would be fair
Fair to whom ?
I don't really understand why anybody would think that Tesla owes anything to anybody other than its stockholders, employees, and product buyers.

Do you open your home to the homeless twice a week to be fair ?
 

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Tesla will not agree to a charging arrangement with cars like the Bolt because they charge too slowly.
Then they are a closed network and will never be an open network. That's the entire point: SC is a closed network and no matter what anybody thinks, what Elon tweets, or other, it will never be a public charging network. And that's fine from a business perspective, but people want to claim they are all about promoting EVs and are dedicated to opening the network and that is an absolutely provable falsehood.
 

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Fair to whom ?
I don't really understand why anybody would think that Tesla owes anything to anybody other than its stockholders, employees, and product buyers.

Do you open your home to the homeless twice a week to be fair ?
Yes, but when I ask the homeless person to chip in their fair share, suddenly the interest wanes... Just like Tesla. LOL
 
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That makes sense... to have their SC clogged with Bolts would be really bad. However, I think it would be fair if Tesla allows 1/4 of their stalls to be used by non-Tesla instead.
Adding all the non-Tesla's to the Supercharger Network probably wouldn't even get noticed here in the states. If the cutoff was 100kW minimum charge rate, how many BEV's that road trip does that add to the Network? Maybe 10% of the Tesla's that currently use it? I don't buy the congestion argument from either side.

I'll have to redo the numbers of new Tesla's vs the added portals to see how well it's keeping up but the latest figures shows a record breaking number of stations and almost a record number of portals last quarter just in the US per the chart below.
36032

But sales is also adding to the Network with YOY growth of 121%. Interestingly, if you extrapolate the YTD numbers above, they are growing the SN in the US by about 112%. And with all new Tesla's able to take full advantage of the V3 Superchargers, time to charge averages will continue to drop. The Model S adds 84 miles in 6 minutes. The models 3 and Y would do better. I think the new Model S is also capable of 350 kW charging rate which will take advantage of the upcoming V4 Superchargers.
 

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Adding all the non-Tesla's to the Supercharger Network probably wouldn't even get noticed here in the states. If the cutoff was 100kW minimum charge rate, how many BEV's that road trip does that add to the Network? Maybe 10% of the Tesla's that currently use it? I don't buy the congestion argument from either side.

I'll have to redo the numbers of new Tesla's vs the added portals to see how well it's keeping up but the latest figures shows a record breaking number of stations and almost a record number of portals last quarter just in the US per the chart below.
View attachment 36032
But sales is also adding to the Network with YOY growth of 121%. Interestingly, if you extrapolate the YTD numbers above, they are growing the SN in the US by about 112%. And with all new Tesla's able to take full advantage of the V3 Superchargers, time to charge averages will continue to drop. The Model S adds 84 miles in 6 minutes. The models 3 and Y would do better. I think the new Model S is also capable of 350 kW charging rate which will take advantage of the upcoming V4 Superchargers.

Yeah, unless ppl want to go to the Tesla restaurant, I don't foresee many non-Tesla owners stopping by. To me, it's a matter of having yet another backup charging station. I am plotting my road trip and what I do is plan to reach a station but actually recharge at the station before it. This way, if the earlier one is down, I can reach the next charging station. Being able to add Tesla SC to my map would allow me to go farther/charge less often.
 
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Yeah, unless ppl want to go to the Tesla restaurant, I don't foresee many non-Tesla owners stopping by. To me, it's a matter of having yet another backup charging station. I am plotting my road trip and what I do is plan to reach a station but actually recharge at the station before it. This way, if the earlier one is down, I can reach the next charging station. Being able to add Tesla SC to my map would allow me to go farther/charge less often.
Exactly, especially if you factor in the costs. One way or another, non-Tesla's will pay more per kWh at a Supercharger than they will at a public DCFC. One network is profitable, the other isn't.
BTW, smart trip planning on your part. Good idea.
 

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The moon is made of green cheese. I have said several times in public that I journeyed to the moon and sampled the cheese with some Venusian wine, so you must accept it as fact until you go to the moon yourself and prove me wrong to yourself. I will then proclaim that your landing on the moon was a hoax several times in public making you wrong again!

It's just logic people, get on bored!

Keith
Not sure if you're being serious or silly but for the benefit of those making baseless claims, the second part of the elementary rules of logic as quoted from Christopher Hitchen's goes like this:

“Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence and that what can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.”

It's just logic people.
 

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Tesla will not agree to a charging arrangement with cars like the Bolt because they charge too slowly.
So we think the dinky Aptera, with it's small pack is capable of higher charge rates?
 
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Let's see if I have all the justifications for exclusive Supercharging right.

1. Other manufacturers didn't help build out the network. Ok, but Tesla owners are free to use plugs on networks Tesla and their owners didn't help build. I will grant one point there, public grants for CCS charging are funded by public funds (mostly VW fines), and registration fees. Conclusion: Mostly BS
2. Other EVs just aren't capable of charging fast enough. Ok, but EVERY Tesla charges well under the 250kW max limit of V3 for probably at least 80% of the time they are plugged in to a SC plug, many for 100% of the time on a V3 plug. And, it is ok for a Tesla to use a 50kW CHAdeMO or Setect adapter on other networks with 150+ kW CCS charging blocked when they do. And a few CCS cars are (or soon will be) capable of charging at 300+ kW. Are older Teslas prevented from using V3 chargers? They can't use the full 250kW, can they? Are Teslas prohibited from charging > 80%? At that point, most are charging at 50kW, aren't they? Conclusion: BS
3. Tesla owners deserve exclusive access, they paid extra for their cars to fund the network. Maybe, but GM is funding 2700 EVGo chargers, and GM EV buyers must be footing the bill for this with their new car purchases, so should these be exclusive to GM owners? VW is footing the bill for EA chargers, should they be exclusively available to VW EV owners? Ford and Hyundai\Kia are paying large sums of money to EA in order to provide limited, free DC charging. Isn't this funding EA growth? Conclusion: BS
4. Tesla plugs are unique. Well, I suppose you could say the same for CCS when put side by side with Teslas. In the end, all public charging points are doing is delivering power. The rest are minor technical aspects that can be addressed by billing systems, adapters, multiple plugs per charger. Almost all CCS sites have at least one unit with both CCS and CHAdeMO plugs, and some EVGo have CCS, CHAdeMO, Tesla. Conclusion: BS
5. Tesla is willing to allow others on the network, provided a list of qualifications. OK, what is the list? See above, oh and sign away IP rights, and be subject to a change of mind at some point in the future at Tesla's discretion. Conclusion: Would you bet your business on this kind of uncertain outcome?

Am I missing anything?

Aside for Holiday weekends on heavily traveled routes, SC sites seem to have several open plugs. The one time I spent any time at an SC location was on a club trip with about 10 Teslas. There were lines 3-4 cars deep, and due to "heavy demand", Tesla throttled the V2 chargers, so nobody got more than 90kW or so at peak. All other times, I tend to see 80% of the plugs unused. Wouldn't a 50kW vehicle represent a lost revenue opportunity if the plugs are otherwise unused? It would be interesting to see plug utilization stats, if they are free and not being used, what harm is it if someone else uses the plug and pays for it. Maybe it helps Tesla build more due to demand.

Look, we all get it, Tesla and their owners feel entitled. It is a fact we have accepted in the CCS EV world. What most of us conclude is, Elon is full of wind boasting what he is doing for adoption of EVs. To Tesla outsiders, one can't help but conclude all he is doing with his actions (not words) is promoting his own brand. Those who are invested in Tesla, either by car choice, or stock choice are the only ones defending this arguably elitist attitude of remaining exclusive. I suspect the audience on this forum is largely not swayed by efforts to defend Tesla's elitist attitude. Of course, we welcome your comments, it helps us all see how irrational a lot of the arguments are. Argue till you turn blue in the face, most on this forum won't be swayed (I know I won't). And please, don't take this as a personal attack, we get it, you like to have your cake and eat it too! Wouldn't we all?

Proof: EU where Tesla ships with the same plug and port as all other brands, Tesla owners have exclusive access to SC, and unrestricted access to every other network. We now hear this may be changing, but we don't know the terms Tesla is pinning to these agreements. It remains to be seen how magnanimous this gesture will prove to be. If history tells us anything, it will not be favorable for owners of other brands.

Frankly, I think the public is split on this topic 3 ways. Tesla owners support exclusivity for a variety of reasons that someone unfamiliar with EVs would likely consider to be rather high browed. Owners of other EVs resent Tesla for being exclusive. And the uninformed public is confused and shies away from EV because it all seems so complicated.

So, tell me how this helps promoted EV adoption?
 

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VW is footing the bill for EA chargers, should they be exclusively available to VW EV owners?
VW is paying a fine. They do not get to choose who connects, the US regulatory authorities decide.

As for the resentment, it is misplaced. Tesla is a privately funded network. If you (e.g.) had paid your share for the network and were denied access, I would understand resentment. As it is you have not paid a penny and I don't understand your feelings of entitlement.
 

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VW is paying a fine. They do not get to choose who connects, the US regulatory authorities decide.

As for the resentment, it is misplaced. Tesla is a privately funded network. If you (e.g.) had paid your share for the network and were denied access, I would understand resentment. As it is you have not paid a penny and I don't understand your feelings of entitlement.
It's not a feeling of entitlement. It's annoyance to the comeback of the assertion that Tesla's network is closed with "Well, Tesla offered openness, but no one wanted to play." @ARob did an outstanding job of outlining the issues. Everyone would be fine with "Tesla's network is only for their owners." But the continued blaming of other manufacturers for the bottleneck when it's pretty clear that Tesla imposed unreasonable obstacles is disingenuous at best.

It's simple. If Tesla wanted to be open, they would offer an adapter. Or if they really wanted to expand charging opportunities, they could install CCS/Chademo stations at their SC sites and charge people to use them. They have done neither. So, don't come back and say that Tesla wants to be open, when they have made absolutely no moves to make that a reality.

ga2500ev
 

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How about a Tesla supercharger adapter that bleeds off excess current with a cool plasma ball or nice Van de Graaff arc generator.
 

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It's simple. If Tesla wanted to be open, they would offer an adapter.
Sorry, that is not Tesla's job, anymore than it is GM's job to develop a CCS to Tesla adapter. It is equally crazy to ask Tesla to foot the cost and use its infrastructure for you. If I knew a word that took entitlement to a whole new level I would use it here.
 

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VW is paying a fine. They do not get to choose who connects, the US regulatory authorities decide.

As for the resentment, it is misplaced. Tesla is a privately funded network. If you (e.g.) had paid your share for the network and were denied access, I would understand resentment. As it is you have not paid a penny and I don't understand your feelings of entitlement.
Please don't try to twist this. I have 0.00% resentment or entitlement towards Tesla. What I do resent is when people drink the cool aid and defend what Tesla is doing.

Tesla is not interested in advancing EVs. They are interested in promoting Teslas. If Tesla were interested in promoting EVs, they would be more accommodating.

And yes, I understand Tesla built their network because they had to, but they did so for their own exclusive benefit. When it became apparent that CCS would eventually become the standard for public charging, they could have begun converting to CCS, like in the rest of the world. EU has mandated they change, shouldn't the US consider doing so as well?

If EVs are to succeed, it will take a lot of work to convince the public that the hot mess of disparate plug types and exclusionary networks are welcoming. Tesla is doing as much harm as good, and Rivian is proof that their self serving attitude is spreading. I really hope Rivian fails, for no other reason than their exclusionary network plans.

VW chose to build EA. They could have just paid fines and let someone else build networks. But they saw that as a chance to put the fines to good use and help themselves. But, it really isn't the point, the point is the fallacy in society accepting that a company paying for electricity dispensers should be permitted to be so self serving. By permitted, I am not talking in the legal sense, I am talking in the socially acceptable sense.

They are electricity dispensers, not some magical thing. The electricity they dispense comes from the same place that the electricity we all use and pay for. We all help pay for the means of generating the commodity they sell exclusively to their customers. The demand their cars put on the grid helps contribute to the shortages that have many of us living without power for hours or days, and having to suffer by using our AC less. They (Tesla) are purposely designed, both engineering wise, and business practice wise to be exclusionary. And they are the inspiration for others to launch exclusionary networks (Rivian).

If Tesla's exclusionary practices were viewed along the lines of certain social constructs, they would be publicly shamed to no end. If you believe, like a good portion of EV owners do, that the destiny of humankind lies is reducing emissions, then the social construct is of far greater consequence than any other society knows. Shouldn't we do as our politicians teach, and shame those who we deem as acting in their own self interest at the expense of our particular view of a healthy society? Aren't the needs of society more important than the self serving needs of a single company?

I am purposely being outrageous and playing devils advocate here to make a point. I have many friends who drive Teslas. I am active in a local EV advocate club that promotes ALL EVs. I am constantly reminding my Tesla friends that taking an interest in the other EVs and helping to promote EVs that are best suited to people's needs is more important than making yourself feel good or superior simply based on your own needs and choices. We have hot discussions about topics like this, and it is good to get it out in the open, to see both sides of the issue, and to seek accommodating solutions.

I am hearing from my Tesla friends, a rising hope that Tesla begins offering CCS adapters to allow Teslas to use the rapidly growing CCS network in my state. CCS travel in my state is becoming far easier than Tesla, covering nearly every route but there are still big gaps for Tesla owners. The Tesla owners here are starting to think twice about the cost of their exclusivity. They are starting to see it as limiting, which is a hard pill to swallow considering how pompous they were just 1-2 years ago about their "superior" Supercharger network. And the way it is unfolding, I can see the exclusivity of Superchargers hurting Tesla sales in my state.

I want to see Tesla succeed. I want to see all EV manufacturers succeed. The best way for all to win is to play a win\win game.
 

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It's simple. If Tesla wanted to be open, they would offer an adapter.
Sorry, that is not Tesla's job, anymore than it is GM's job to develop a CCS to Tesla adapter. It is equally crazy to ask Tesla to foot the cost and use its infrastructure for you. If I knew a word that took entitlement to a whole new level I would use it here.
Thanks for taking a single sentence out of context. As far as I'm concerned Tesla needs to do absolutely nothing. But I'm not buying the BS that Tesla does absolutely nothing yet wants to claim that they want to be open with the SuperCharger network. If Tesla wants to open their network, then they should open it. If not then both Tesla and the Teslarati fan nation should just shut up about it.

ga2500ev
 

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If you believe, like a good portion of EV owners do, that the destiny of humankind lies is reducing emissions, then the social construct is of far greater consequence than any other society knows. Shouldn't we do as our politicians teach, and shame those who we deem as acting in their own self interest at the expense of our particular view of a healthy society?
My opinion is that Tesla has done far more for the above goal than any other car manufacturer on Earth. That they have not directly benefited Bolt owners is besides the point. If shaming is your hobby, let me suggest you direct your energies towards GM.
 

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If shaming is your hobby, let me suggest you direct your energies towards GM.
GM is footing the bill for 2700 EVGo chargers which will triple that network's size for the benefit of all brands. That is such a weak argument, and false, yet the Tesla fans continue to try to use that argument. Yet, here you are, a Tesla fan trying to shame GM to deflect blame.

Given GM's EV market share, 2700 chargers is likely to be equal to the effort Tesla has put into SC on a pro rated basis.

Could GM and others do more? Sure, as their market share improves, maybe they will. But they are not going the exclusionary route.
 

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Isn’t “exclusivity” part of the Tesla mystique (and brand), and isn’t it at least partly why people are buying Teslas?

Suddenly allowing just anybody to use the SuperCharger network would be like a Home Builder starting a subdivision requiring 5000 sq. ft. homes, then after several bought in, changing the rules to allow 1500 sq. ft. homes (or cluster housing)! That’s not a good look for the Home Builder...

That’s why I think if he does anything it’ll be to sell off the entire network all at once. That way, the new owner can be the “bad guy”.
 
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