[EV Engineering]

If you are familiar with an EV and have already gone through the "wow" phase, then yes, it is just a car. I experienced the same when we traded our 2019 Leaf for a 2020 Model 3. I thought the Leaf was amazing when we got it. I loved the EV change so much I bought a Bolt. We then decided to test drive a Model 3. While I thought it was great, and I liked it more than the Leaf, It wasn't earth shattering. My goalposts had been moved by the Leaf and Bolt, and the Model 3 was just a nice car.



My 2020 Model 3 that I took delivery of in March of 2020 was almost perfect. The only things I could nitpick is the driver's door was a little "out" and not quite flush with the rear passenger door. I loosened the latch/strike plate/whatever you call it and bumped it in a few millimeters. All good now. And the left rear passenger's door handle is a little recessed compared to the others. Not enough for me to worry about or complain. The paint is great although not as smooth as the Bolt when you look at something reflected in it. No panel gaps or misalignment other than what I mentioned previously. No squeaks, rattles, or noise. After almost a year I've had no issues. I can't say that for my 2019 Bolt, I had the rear axle replaced and now the battery issue. And that's not a dig at the Bolt, it is just a fact.

If you live near a Tesla Service Center, that makes the decision a little easier. Especially if you're in an area where the service centers aren't swamped. If not, think things over a little more vs. something else. I haven't had to use Tesla service, but if I do it is as close as the Chevy dealer.

Another thing to consider is Tesla's warranty is 4 yr/50k mi and the Bolt is 3 yr/36k mi. Battery warranties are both 8 yr but the Tesla drive unit is 120k vs. the Bolt's 100k.

So with Tesla you are taking a bit of a gamble, especially if you buy one during their ramp up of production. Hopefully they have things ironed out for the Y after almost a year. But a gamble is the case with any new car model, new manufacturer, or new technology. Whether you buy a Bolt, Leaf, Tesla, or anything else, we're all early adopters and guinea pigs at this stage. You've just got to be prepared for that. That's why I'm being patient with the battery issues and my Bolt. I knew stuff like this was possible when I made the jump to two EVs. Gonna stick with it and see where things go. I'm not going back to ICE though, that's for sure.

In hindsight if I were to do it all over again, I'd probably end up with a Tesla and Bolt just like now. Depends on what happens with the Bolt's battery. And maybe a Model Y instead of a Model 3. I'd just skip the Leaf. It wasn't a bad car, but just not the right car for me.

With my experience and owning Tesla and Bolt.
Bolt is a keeper even after warranty expired it is dirty cheap vs Tesla. Tesla is good for as long warranty is there. Parts are much cheaper and easy to get.... GM has more service locations. If you are experienced mechanic you can buy scanner straight from GM for troubleshooting vs Tesla that they think no other shops or mechanics are qualified to work on Tesla. Tesla will become like German made car's once warranty is over. High cost maintenance.
I'm not against Tesla but this is truth that is going to sting hard your wallet once they become owners full responsibility for all repairs.

 

[OneEV]

Sundog do you sit as high in the Y as the Bolt?

 

[stangbat]

With my experience and owning Tesla and Bolt.
Bolt is a keeper even after warranty expired it is dirty cheap vs Tesla. Tesla is good for as long warranty is there. Parts are much cheaper and easy to get.... GM has more service locations. If you are experienced mechanic you can buy scanner straight from GM for troubleshooting vs Tesla that they think no other shops or mechanics are qualified to work on Tesla. Tesla will become like German made car's once warranty is over. High cost maintenance.
I'm not against Tesla but this is truth that is going to sting hard your wallet once they become owners full responsibility for all repairs.

Yes, more good points to consider. If you wrench on your own cars, the Bolt makes sense. Definitely easier to get parts and service info. We'll see what happens with my Model 3.

I have a friend who buys new cars every 3-4 years, so a 3 vs. 4 yr warranty would be something he'd take into consideration. I tend to keep cars for 7-10+ years, so they are out of warranty by the time I'm done with them. Access to parts and repair info is more important to me.

 

[sundog]

Sundog do you sit as high in the Y as the Bolt?

No; I sit higher than I need to in the Bolt, mostly to see part of the speedo. But I've found it reduces glare too.

I like to sit with only 1 finger width between thigh and steering wheel.

 

[Adventurebolt2019]

What about a used Audi Etron? I've seen some go for 55k slightly used. Incredible car to drive, can tow far more than 3,4k pounds and has 150kW CCS supercharging

2019 Audi e-tron SUV on KSL.com

Shop the Largest selection of Audi Vehicles in Utah at Audi Salt Lake City. Audi Salt Lake City has been providing the great state of Utah with esteem

cars.ksl.com

 

[cwerdna]

Not to defend poor quality, but CR ratings breakdown was:

• 5-out-of-5 (best rating) in: engine major, engine minor, drive system, electric system, suspension, brakes & power equipment.
• 4 out of 5 in In-Car Electronics (because they don't like the interface)
• 2 out of 5 in "body integrity" (Squeaks, rattles, wind noises, loose or cracked seals and/or weather-stripping, air and water leaks.)
• 1 out of 5 in paint/bodywork, and Body Hardware (Power or manual windows, locks and latches, tailgate, hatch or trunk, doors or sliding doors, mirrors, seat controls, safety belts, sunroof, convertible top.)

You're making some assumptions re: in-car electronics, unless CR states it was due to that.

Y got a TERRIBLE predicted reliability rating likely because of the above. New vehicles aren't supposed have that many trouble spots and bad scores unless one is ok w/below or well-below average reliability. Go compare the above ratings to a reliable car like a '20 Prius or '20 Camry.

 

[GJETSON]

Yup. If you're riding a donkey in a field full of elephants, it's kinda hard not to mention the elephants once in a while, especially when a lot of the donkey riders also own elephants.

There you go, talking politics again.

 

[MisterJJ]

There you go, talking politics again.

Haha. I didn't even realize the connection until you pointed it out. Maybe sub-conscious? My initial thinking was relating it to the phrase "ignoring the elephant in the room".

But on-topic, I don't trust consumer reports much as well. Or ratings from a limited viewpoint in general. I knew Audi reliability was poor when I bought one 15 years ago but I really loved the car. I made sure I knew what to look for and fixed things ahead of time. It never once left me stranded in 15 years and 210k miles. Although two door locks broke as I was getting her ready to sell and then a window regulator broke for the first time as I was showing her to a prospective buyer. I swear the car has a mind of it's own, like the movie Christine except instead of being murderous she's just passive-aggressive.

 

[GJETSON]

I don't trust consumer reports much as well.

I started to take their evaluations with a pound of salt back when they reviewed adult bikes during the first bicycle boom in the late 1960s. They didn't have clue as to what their were looking at. It was pretty hilarious.

 

[NewsCoulomb]

"just a car?" Could that be that most of the mystique is from being an electric car? And since you've experienced that part from the Bolt, another electric is not that much more impressive?

If you are familiar with an EV and have already gone through the "wow" phase, then yes, it is just a car. I experienced the same when we traded our 2019 Leaf for a 2020 Model 3. I thought the Leaf was amazing when we got it. I loved the EV change so much I bought a Bolt. We then decided to test drive a Model 3. While I thought it was great, and I liked it more than the Leaf, It wasn't earth shattering. My goalposts had been moved by the Leaf and Bolt, and the Model 3 was just a nice car.

Yes, this has been my experience as well. Having owned a Volt over 8 years now and the Bolt EV for over 4 years, just being electric alone isn't good enough for me. That's going to be a real challenge moving forward for Tesla. They've got their EV package down. I still disagree with some of their engineering decisions, such as cylindrical cells, but Tesla is ahead of most in terms of their EV packaging. The problem is, they now need to learn how to make a car.

The good news is, they've shown a capacity for growth and improvement. The Roadster was basically a kit car with a battery and motor. The Model S and X were actually production cars, but they had issues one would be disappointed to find in cars a fraction of the price. The Model 3 and Y are getting closer still, but outside of the electric powertrain, I'd question anyone who told me that they were better cars than the Honda Civic or Toyota RAV4.

 

[RichCapeCod]

.... The Model 3 and Y are getting closer still, but outside of the electric powertrain, I'd question anyone who told me that they were better cars than the Honda Civic or Toyota RAV4.

Eric, I've said this before, I'm not a Tesla "fan" but rather a "customer." The model Y I picked up in Nov is, really and truly, perfect in regard build quality. And I've looked really carefully, expecting the worst. Paint is beautiful, gaps perfect (ya gonna make me take pics to prove it?!?!). Now, why Tesla can't build this same level of quality into every one of their machines, I can't answer that question.

Rich

 

[NewsCoulomb]

Eric, I've said this before, I'm not a Tesla "fan" but rather a "customer." The model Y I picked up in Nov is, really and truly, perfect in regard build quality. And I've looked really carefully, expecting the worst. Paint is beautiful, gaps perfect (ya gonna make me take pics to prove it?!?!). Now, why Tesla can't build this same level of quality into every one of their machines, I can't answer that question.

Rich

I'm sure your Y is fine, but again, I said can you honestly say that (outside of the electric powertrain) it is a better car than a Toyota RAV4? The reason I say that is, for people who are basing their decisions on things other than running on electricity, even Tesla's current offerings are "just another car."

 

[RichCapeCod]

I'm sure your Y is fine, but again, I said can you honestly say that (outside of the electric powertrain) it is a better car than a Toyota RAV4? The reason I say that is, for people who are basing their decisions on things other than running on electricity, even Tesla's current offerings are "just another car."

Having owned a RAV4 for many years (great little car, this was around a 2003 year model) I can say with full authority that our model Y is heads and shoulders above that little Toyota. Now, a new RAV4, not a clue.

Rich

 

[NewsCoulomb]

Having owned a RAV4 for many years (great little car, this was around a 2003 year model) I can say with full authority that our model Y is heads and shoulders above that little Toyota. Now, a new RAV4, not a clue.

Rich

Exactly. The 2012 Model S likely was, at best, equivalent to a 2003 MY Toyota car. Your 2020 Model Y really needs to be much, much better than that at almost every level just to be a consideration versus other 2020 MY cars.

 

[MikeyBolt]

I like Tesla. They make cool cars. The deal breaker for me is that all of their cars (including the Model 3) are about 2 feet longer than what I want. I like compact cars that are maneuverable, easy to park, and can still seat four people while being quick enough to be fun around town (think semi-hot hatch). Right now, the Bolt is the only thing that fits the bill.

Mike

 

[NewsCoulomb]

I like Tesla. They make cool cars. The deal breaker for me is that all of their cars (including the Model 3) are about 2 feet longer than what I want. I like compact cars that are maneuverable, easy to park, and can still seat four people while being quick enough to be fun around town (think semi-hot hatch). Right now, the Bolt is the only thing that fits the bill.

Mike

Now that you say that, I wonder... The Bolt EUV didn't really add much to the Bolt platform other than a longer, wider wheelbase. Given the Bolt EV overperformed in overall cargo capacity and passenger room, I wonder whether Chevy shouldn't have remade the Bolt EV to be a true hot hatch, leaving the Bolt EUV to be the compact CUV.

The first order of business would be chopping 2" to 3" off the rooftop of the Bolt EV. It would leave us with something closer to the Hyundai Kona Electric than the KIA Niro EV that the Bolt EV is currently closest to. It would also create a greater distinction with the Bolt EUV. Are you 6' 5" and in need of a taller roofline? Get the Bolt EUV. Are you more in the market for an efficient hot hatch? Get the Bolt EV.

 

[DZD]

I'm 5'10, avg. proportion. If I set the seat as high as it can go, and the wheel as low as it goes, then I can see most of the speedo numbers above the steering wheel. I'd prefer to set the seat four notches down from full height... but that completely blocks the speed behind the top of the wheel.

To see the speedo numbers below the wheel, I have to lower the seat and raise the wheel. This makes me hold my arms up a bit, which hurts, as I'm fighting off some tennis elbow.

Thanks for the heads-up on the X; I do know somebody selling a 2016 X (90D) with 230 mile range for about $50k. Maybe I should test drive it. It has 15% more battery than the Y, but 15% worse efficiency (but towing should hurt that range ~15% less, so it should probably have a towing range about 6% longer... or maybe 10% because it's 3" wider). But I'm a little scared of what an X costs to maintain out of warranty.

I do the opposite - I set the steering wheel as high as it can go and I set the seat as low as it can go and I look through the steering wheel to see the speedo - it would be difficult to look above the steering wheel to see it.

 

[MisterJJ]

Are you 6' 5" and in need of a taller roofline? Get the Bolt EUV.

Not needed if they just lower the darn seat. I'm not tall, at 5' 7", and I have the seat at the lowest position and it still feels too high for me. Lower the seats and the roofline.

 

[greendave]

Now that you say that, I wonder... The Bolt EUV didn't really add much to the Bolt platform other than a longer, wider wheelbase. Given the Bolt EV overperformed in overall cargo capacity and passenger room, I wonder whether Chevy shouldn't have remade the Bolt EV to be a true hot hatch, leaving the Bolt EUV to be the compact CUV.

Seems like an obvious move to me. Especially since it's a market they have all to themselves. Well, except maybe the Nissan Leaf.

The first order of business would be chopping 2" to 3" off the rooftop of the Bolt EV. It would leave us with something closer to the Hyundai Kona Electric than the KIA Niro EV that the Bolt EV is currently closest to. It would also create a greater distinction with the Bolt EUV. Are you 6' 5" and in need of a taller roofline? Get the Bolt EUV. Are you more in the market for an efficient hot hatch? Get the Bolt EV.

Also since it'd be a hatch and not a CUV, they're allowed to give the rear passengers real windows. And shrink the A pillars to something slightly less gargantuan!

(Yes, I don't expect any of these things to happen. But it'd be nice if they did. Basically a VW Golf with an EV drivetrain that goes 250 miles per charge...)

 

[Fivedoor]

I started to take their evaluations with a pound of salt back when they reviewed adult bikes during the first bicycle boom in the late 1960s. They didn't have clue as to what their were looking at. It was pretty hilarious.

I stopped taking them serious back in the 90's when they gave the Mitsubishi Eclipse and Mitsubishi 3000GT significantly better ratings than they gave the Eagle Talon, and Dodge Stealth.

Keith