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2020 Bolt EV. Prev: 2017 Bolt/2012 Volt.
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So I'm watching all the coverage of Battery Day and the back-slapping that Tesla has a $25k electric car on its strategic roadmap - three years away, which is usually labeled "vaporware" by the hivemind but still: yay - and left wondering, aren't we already there? Doesn't a 2020 Chevy Bolt, available in many primary EV markets with between $10-15k in discounts off the dated MSRP, now qualify as the affordable EV for the masses, right here, right now?!

I get that the more fundamentalist wing of the Teslarati will simply say "Not a Tesla..." but there's something about that rebuttal that doesn't scream considered, to me. After all, at this low price point, you're not going to get a lot of the bells and whistles that many extol as the key selling point of a Tesla. It might manage a slightly quicker 0-60mph time, but low six seconds is already pretty nippy and the frugal car buyer is much less concerned with this aspect of performance. Yes, the Supercharger network will be a distinction, but the public DCFC network will look completely different by 2024, so that argument is also a nonstarter.

I might well be missing something here, so please shoot some holes in this thought if you think it's a stretch to call the current Bolt EV the $25,000 electric car that's already available :)
 

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The market is cruel as I write this on my Windows 10 mobile phone that the market killed. The mantra, no apps. The Bolt, made by GM, doesn't have supercharger, doesn't update software, and not a Tesla. Need I say more?
 

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So I'm watching all the coverage of Battery Day and the back-slapping that Tesla has a $25k electric car on its strategic roadmap - three years away, which is usually labeled "vaporware" by the hivemind but still: yay - and left wondering, aren't we already there? Doesn't a 2020 Chevy Bolt, available in many primary EV markets with between $10-15k in discounts off the dated MSRP, now qualify as the affordable EV for the masses, right here, right now?!

I get that the more fundamentalist wing of the Teslarati will simply say "Not a Tesla..." but there's something about that rebuttal that doesn't scream considered, to me. After all, at this low price point, you're not going to get a lot of the bells and whistles that many extol as the key selling point of a Tesla. It might manage a slightly quicker 0-60mph time, but low six seconds is already pretty nippy and the frugal car buyer is much less concerned with this aspect of performance. Yes, the Supercharger network will be a distinction, but the public DCFC network will look completely different by 2024, so that argument is also a nonstarter.

I might well be missing something here, so please shoot some holes in this thought if you think it's a stretch to call the current Bolt EV the $25,000 electric car that's already available :)
I agree, and used this at two NDEW events this month. It was a kind of Little Red Riding Hood scene.

Visitors were naturally attracted to the Teslas, and when they learned the prices of X ($100K+), S ($75K+), 3\Y ($45-50k+), they seemed discouraged. Next, they would talk to the 2013 Leaf owner who paid $7K and thought, this is more like it till they found the range (70 miles) was a turnoff.

Then, they talked to me about Bolt. I asked what keeps you from buying an EV? Most said price, range, fear of the unknown. My reply, what would you say if you found a $15-20K low mile used EV with 230+ miles of range, their ears perked up. Then followed with what about a $25-30K new EV with 250+ miles of range, they replied, well I would give it serious consideration. I replied, well you are looking at just that! I said this with a Model X owner standing next to me participating in the conversation. He piped in, you could buy one for yourself, one for your spouse, and one for your kids and still come out ahead of me!

A few years ago, Leaf was the "bargain" used EV of choice. As Bolts come to the used car markets, they are really surprising a lot of folks.

So, I am all in if you want to start a campaign that the $25K long range EV is already in the market!

The finer points of Tesla vs the rest are really not all that compelling to the general public. The biggest myth is Tesla vs all others WRT trip cars. In CO, there are 22 Supercharger sites. There are now 85 CCS sites with many more coming (8 new sites in Denver alone, plus Chargepoint has a huge grant from the state to open CCS sites on scenic highways). When I showed them the map, I said, despite what Tesla owners will claim, that the only EV that is up to the task for trips is a Tesla, they are stuck in the past. Two to three years ago, I would have agreed, but I suspect CO Tesla owners are a bit jealous of the progress CCS has made. The X owner was still standing next to me and agreed.

I get it, EA needs to address reliability. And the number of CCS plugs will need to grow as more EV come to market. But, with a few exceptions, CCS travel is nearly as easy as Tesla. Granted, it may take a bit longer on a full day drive. But, Bolt is a fantastic commuter, and a decent trip car. But best of all, it is a bargain compared to almost any other EV in the market today.
 

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You can't sell what isn't advertised.
Elon might disagree with you on this point. Word of mouth advertising and PR seem to be working quite well for T.

But, GM doesn't have the aura Elon has.
 

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So I'm watching all the coverage of Battery Day and the back-slapping that Tesla has a $25k electric car on its strategic roadmap - three years away, which is usually labeled "vaporware" by the hivemind but still: yay - and left wondering, aren't we already there? Doesn't a 2020 Chevy Bolt, available in many primary EV markets with between $10-15k in discounts off the dated MSRP, now qualify as the affordable EV for the masses, right here, right now?!

I get that the more fundamentalist wing of the Teslarati will simply say "Not a Tesla..." but there's something about that rebuttal that doesn't scream considered, to me. After all, at this low price point, you're not going to get a lot of the bells and whistles that many extol as the key selling point of a Tesla. It might manage a slightly quicker 0-60mph time, but low six seconds is already pretty nippy and the frugal car buyer is much less concerned with this aspect of performance. Yes, the Supercharger network will be a distinction, but the public DCFC network will look completely different by 2024, so that argument is also a nonstarter.

I might well be missing something here, so please shoot some holes in this thought if you think it's a stretch to call the current Bolt EV the $25,000 electric car that's already available :)
I think the key qualifier is "profitably", i.e. on it's own without subsidies, tax credits, ZEV credits, etc.
The Bolts sells at a massive loss if it didn't have the ICEV truck/SUV division to absorb it. I don't know if the $8,500 discount that ended a few weeks ago on top of the $9k loss at retail was still net positive. Hard to imagine that there's a $17,500 profit on an Equinox to offset the loss but I'm sure it's much more complicated than that.

There are already Chinese EV's below that price point that are profitable so it's not really anything to chest thump over IMO. However, they may not have the 300 mile range that Tesla is probably going to target for their version nor will it impress the in-laws.
 

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The market is cruel as I write this on my Windows 10 mobile phone that the market killed. The mantra, no apps. The Bolt, made by GM, doesn't have supercharger, doesn't update software, and not a Tesla. Need I say more?
If Tesla sold a phone, I might look into it. As for cars, there are more important things to me than an upgrade that adds a fart simulator or the ability to play Pacman with your steering wheel... important things like keeping my bumpers and roof while I drive.

Mike
 

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The Bolts sells at a massive loss... I don't know if the $8,500 discount that ended a few weeks ago on top of the $9k loss at retail was still net positive.
Are you saying the $8500 GM Rebate ended? It's still showing up on the Chevy.com website?
 

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My Tesla stock is doing quite well, I hope he continues to transform the market and at this point I don't care if he transforms it into a big pile of poo as long as I make oodles of money on the stock. This has the potential to make my pension look meaningless.

The number of SuperChargers in my state is fairly close to the number of L3 50kW or greater sites in my state and the SC network is well positioned unlike the L3's. I agree that in some states it's not longer accurate to say that Tesla is better suited for long trips but in my area, for now, it is. The discounts that exist right now make the Bolt quite a nice deal, but these discounts come and go and the Costco $3000 is not one to dismiss.
 

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If Tesla sold a phone, I might look into it. As for cars, there are more important things to me than an upgrade that adds a fart simulator or the ability to play Pacman with your steering wheel... important things like keeping my bumpers and roof while I drive.

Mike
I've driven over 500 miles in Tesla's and haven't been disappointed in the fit and finish. You have a greater risk of your Bolt starting on fire than a roof falling off. Not sure on the bumpers though, you might have a good point for sure there.
 

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... The Bolt, made by GM,
-doesn't have supercharger,
-doesn't update software,
-and not a Tesla. ...
-There are more DCFC stations everyday.
-Doesn't need constant SW updates if you get it right the first time.
-and, it's affordable, ( because it's not a Tesla. )
 
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I think the key qualifier is "profitably", i.e. on it's own without subsidies, tax credits, ZEV credits, etc.
The Bolts sells at a massive loss if it didn't have the ICEV truck/SUV division to absorb it. I don't know if the $8,500 discount that ended a few weeks ago on top of the $9k loss at retail was still net positive. Hard to imagine that there's a $17,500 profit on an Equinox to offset the loss but I'm sure it's much more complicated than that.

There are already Chinese EV's below that price point that are profitable so it's not really anything to chest thump over IMO. However, they may not have the 300 mile range that Tesla is probably going to target for their version nor will it impress the in-laws.
I suspect most of Tesla profits come from ZEV credits as well.

GM has claimed Bolt is a profitable model, and yes most GM profits come from ICE. So what? Investors only care about the bottom line. Tesla investors don’t seem to mind profits come from ZEV credits.

If ZEV credits vaporized tomorrow, Tesla might have to close its doors.

You are always quick on the trigger belittling anything not Tesla so where is your proof of massive losses? Or is this point just made to ruffle feathers?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 

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I got my $25,000 affordable EV last summer...Still love driving it. 2020's can be had for $22k now; Just need some PR, but I agree with you. That's where Elon shines. He's a wonderful salesman for his product(s). Love him or hate him, everybody knows about Tesla and that's half the game.
 

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GM's MSRP is definitely killing interest in the Bolt.

That said, there's simply no question that most people prefer a 'smart' car - one that's connected, gets OTA updates and so forth. That's what Tesla has which the Bolt (and most newer entrants) don't.
 

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Don't you have to sell it to make that money?
Isn't that how it works? (Asking for a friend..)
You do, sadly I sold my initial investment and only have the profit still in it. I am lousy at playing the market but I'm super happy in my Amazon and Tesla stocks for now. Subject to change. I sold a bunch of Amazon stock to buy a boat and wish I hadn't .... I'd have a bigger boat now. I bought 9 bitcoins by accident .... I was supposed to buy .9. I bought them for $274/each. One day those bitcoins were selling for close to $20,000/ea but I learned in that market you actually have to find a buyer and when you think you're going to get $20k, you actually really end up with $15k. That's how I bought my Bolt in 2018, selling bitcoins. That market is too wierd for me, the good news is there's no tracking of that money so you can easily avoid taxes.

I hope the credits from the Federal Govt increase, and I wish my state adopted their own. I know that I will always have an EV. I don't know what my next one will be, but it'll be an EV.
 

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Are you saying the $8500 GM Rebate ended? It's still showing up on the Chevy.com website?
Well, when we were shopping for a Bolt for my daughter, the urgency was that it was set to expire at the end of September according to all the ads. We weren't able to come to amicable terms by then so we've taken a break from actively looking. If it is still in effect, then I may get back into it. Was kind of hoping some of the other players would pony up similar incentives like the $6,500 dealer discounts on top of the $8,500 for the Bolt. Even if just the dealers were as motivated it would be comparable with the $7,500 Federal tax Credit in lieu of the manufacturers discount.
 

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Don't you have to sell it to make that money?
Isn't that how it works? (Asking for a friend..)
Actually, no. If you own 100 shares, you can sell covered calls which e.g. a Sept. 16, 2022 expiry with a $650 strike would net a $12,500 premium. You could use that to buy 27 shares today and in two years, if the SP is above $650, you get $65,000 for those 100 shares of which $17,550 came from those 27 shares you bought at $460 with someone else's money. So you effectively sold 73 shares for $890 each. If the SP closes below $650, you keep your 27 shares or whatever you did with the $12,500. It's like a dividend.
And if want to hang on to those 100 shares if the price is above $650, you can roll them before expiry for an even higher strike price with a further expiry until the strike eventually ends up above the SP at expiry. I've got 4 options I'm doing that now with at various strikes and expiries. I don't ever intend to sell the shares but this allows me to cash in on TSLA without selling them.
 

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I suspect most of Tesla profits come from ZEV credits as well.

GM has claimed Bolt is a profitable model, and yes most GM profits come from ICE. So what? Investors only care about the bottom line. Tesla investors don’t seem to mind profits come from ZEV credits.

If ZEV credits vaporized tomorrow, Tesla might have to close its doors.

You are always quick on the trigger belittling anything not Tesla so where is your proof of massive losses? Or is this point just made to ruffle feathers?


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Yes, absolutely Tesla also gets income from ZEV credits. GM is one of the largest buyers of Tesla's credits. The FCA European credits are paying for GigaBerlin. At some point though, Tesla will no longer be in an aggressive growth mode so spending will be more in line with other legacy OEM's which in turn would keep the profits on the balance sheet. But Tesla only gets a fraction of the value of the ZEV credits by selling vs GM gets the full credit when it generates its own and applies it towards their ICEV's.
The recent ER credits that put Tesla in a net positive profitability could have easily been shelved by slowing down expansion of Shanghai or Supercharger build-outs or Service Centers, or R&D....I think you get the point.
GM has not claimed the Bolt is profitable as a stand alone model from what I've read.

.

"Bloomberg — citing sources familiar with the matter — reports that for each new zero-emission Chevrolet Bolt (not to be confused with the similarly named, but not all-electric Volt) sold GM will lose about $9,000. "


I believe Bob Lutz also admitted the Bolt looses about $9k.
So, no, not meant to ruffle feathers, just add clarity with proof as requested.
 
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