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Maybe things in Europe are different, but the current depreciation here has me convinced that demand is not that strong. People are not snapping them up (unlike e.g. the Tesla Model 3).
The Chevy Bolt EV is #7 among all cars for the least time spent in inventory. That's an impressive show of demand, especially because it's extremely difficult to even get them outside of CARB states. One of the biggest gripes is that it's hard to get a test drive in non-CARB states because the Bolt EVs that are sent there are sold before anyone can test drive them.

I also wouldn't let depreciation be a guide for demand. Americans are really bad about "used" anything. There's a stigma against buying used, and I'm convinced that most Americans could cut their budgets in half simply by only buying pre-owned goods. The only reason Tesla EVs maintain their original value so much better than other EVs is because Tesla as a company is actively buying back their vehicles in order to resell them as certified pre-owned (unlocking features which allow them to sell at a higher profit).
 

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I went to Chevrolet.com, put in my zip code and asked to see new Bolt's ..... I got tired of hitting the 'see next 24' button at the bottom of the page to see more options. I was way past 100 Bolt's when I gave up and hadn't hit any dealer farther than 46 miles. Taking into account people have reported on this site to have driven across state lines to get them, if anyone wants one ...... for a small finders fee I can help you out.
 

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The stigma that EV are expensive is partly due to these factors, when in reality, Bolt at $25K is really an affordable price, or at least close enough to get people thinking beyond purchase price at the TCO savings possibilities.
Price is not the same as cost though. If all GM did was sell the Bolt at $25k, they would go bankrupt in no time.

The point I've been making is that nobody knows there is a $25k Bolt on the market because GM doesn't want people to know that. In other words, the reason why the Bolt can be purchased for $25k is because few consumers know this.

If people knew about the Bolt as well as they know about the Model 3, and they knew it was $25k instead of whatever the MSRP is, the car would no longer be $25k because GM would have to raise the price (cut incentives) to reduce demand to equal their supply.
 

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Price is not the same as cost though. If all GM did was sell the Bolt at $25k, they would go bankrupt in no time.

The point I've been making is that nobody knows there is a $25k Bolt on the market because GM doesn't want people to know that. In other words, the reason why the Bolt can be purchased for $25k is because few consumers know this.

If people knew about the Bolt as well as they know about the Model 3, and they knew it was $25k instead of whatever the MSRP is, the car would no longer be $25k because GM would have to raise the price (cut incentives) to reduce demand to equal their supply.
While I agree that GM will adjust pricing to address supply versus demand, I think you make a number of assumptions here that I haven't seen supported by actual data. I think people underestimate how well known the Bolt EV is while overestimating how well known the Model 3 is. Yes, more people know about Elon Musk than Mary Barra, and possibly as many people know about Tesla as know about GM. However, the average person on the street could only vaguely tell you about either the Bolt EV or the Model 3. They certainly couldn't give hard details. Most are going to mistake the Bolt EV for "that plug-in hybrid from those Superbowl commercials," and they're going to assume that they can't buy a Model 3 for less than $60,000.

Also, the Bolt EV is actually profitable for GM at $25,000, right now. I've seen estimates that the 2017 Bolt EV cost ~$27,000 just in parts in labor, but the battery cell costs have come down to about $120 per kWh from $145 per kWh (nearly $1,000 in savings), and parts production moved to Hazel Park, significantly cutting costs. I'd love to see an updated version of that report. The labor and parts cost to build a 2020 Bolt EV is likely down to around $20,000.

So how can the Bolt EV be profitable being sold at $25,000? There are really two pathways. The first (and current) model is by selling a majority of Bolt EVs in CARB states, where they are worth $19,500 in ZEV credits to GM. That means GM could quite literally give them away, and they'd still break even. The second model is by leveraging economies of scale. Bolt EVs are currently supply constrained (only about 25,000 units made per year), and the parts and labor costs are partially dictated by that small scale. So even selling outside of CARB states without ZEV credits, if GM increased their production to 100,000 units per year, they could still sell the Bolt EV profitably for $25,000. Four years ago, that wasn't an option due to battery supply issues. Today, it likely isn't as much of an issue, despite even higher demand for batteries from other automakers.
 

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I went to Chevrolet.com, put in my zip code and asked to see new Bolt's ..... I got tired of hitting the 'see next 24' button at the bottom of the page to see more options. I was way past 100 Bolt's when I gave up and hadn't hit any dealer farther than 46 miles. Taking into account people have reported on this site to have driven across state lines to get them, if anyone wants one ...... for a small finders fee I can help you out.
There's certainly no supply issue with the bolt, that's not even debatable. But from experience, depending on where you are, the supply varies. If the average time a bolt sits on the lot is 6 weeks, obviously, if you want one, you can get it. The problem we ran into was comparing our area where the Bolt is somewhat of a unicorn to a ZEV state with more "incentive" to add carbon credits.
It's possible that Maryland sales net a bigger credit to GM than NY, therefore, their dealers are rewarded for turning over more bolts with larger allocations of hard to get, high margin cars like Vettes' or high end trucks. Our area dealers always had new bolts to test drive but would not contribute a dime out of their commission whereas Maryland and Missouri would pony up $6k not counting the Costco coupon if you had a pulse. This was on top of the $8,500 that GM was discounting.
This is why we were willing to buy out of state, nothing to do with supply, it was a reluctance of dealer participation. It could also have been that our area since it's not a hotbed for bolts for a variety of reasons has so few shipped here that they don't worry if it sits for 6 weeks. I've read that that's actually about average so who knows.
We have insider reports confirmed by the ex CEO that they were loosing money at retail and nothing that contradicts that outside of GM apologist's own confirmation bias. So every credible data point from the LG Chem contract to supply 30k-50k cars worth of batteries a year, to the deep discounts pretty much spells it out.

I would like to see how that commitment to LG was satisfied. I've been involved in minimum take-down contracts, not for cars though. They typical are negotiated that way to justify the "deal". LG's was probably the same as reports when the details came out were that GM was getting a bargain at $145/kWh. If that price was contingent on a minimum of 30,000 cars/year, GM may be sitting on quite a stockpile of batteries.
I am surprised though that IMO, the used bolt market is actually pretty healthy. I'm not seeing the deep discounts that the Leaf suffered as they were starting to come off the first round of leases. Maybe it will take some time before they saturate Manheim.
 

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There's certainly no supply issue with the bolt, that's not even debatable. .....
Ok, good to know. I was posting the experience in the midwest of availability because I wasn't comprehending nor following some of the comments above. I kept seeing statements that gave me a perception that differed from the line of Bolts I see on the lots at the dealerships, examples like;
"GM didn't have enough inventory to fill their standing orders, especially in Europe. So people were already clamoring."
"Limited availability" (Bold in the post)
"The main issue is availability."
Out here, there is availability if anyone wants one, plus it's not a bad road trip.
 

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There's certainly no supply issue with the bolt, that's not even debatable. But from experience, depending on where you are, the supply varies. If the average time a bolt sits on the lot is 6 weeks, obviously, if you want one, you can get it. The problem we ran into was comparing our area where the Bolt is somewhat of a unicorn to a ZEV state with more "incentive" to add carbon credits.
It's possible that Maryland sales net a bigger credit to GM than NY, therefore, their dealers are rewarded for turning over more bolts with larger allocations of hard to get, high margin cars like Vettes' or high end trucks. Our area dealers always had new bolts to test drive but would not contribute a dime out of their commission whereas Maryland and Missouri would pony up $6k not counting the Costco coupon if you had a pulse. This was on top of the $8,500 that GM was discounting.
This is why we were willing to buy out of state, nothing to do with supply, it was a reluctance of dealer participation. It could also have been that our area since it's not a hotbed for bolts for a variety of reasons has so few shipped here that they don't worry if it sits for 6 weeks. I've read that that's actually about average so who knows.
We have insider reports confirmed by the ex CEO that they were loosing money at retail and nothing that contradicts that outside of GM apologist's own confirmation bias. So every credible data point from the LG Chem contract to supply 30k-50k cars worth of batteries a year, to the deep discounts pretty much spells it out.

I would like to see how that commitment to LG was satisfied. I've been involved in minimum take-down contracts, not for cars though. They typical are negotiated that way to justify the "deal". LG's was probably the same as reports when the details came out were that GM was getting a bargain at $145/kWh. If that price was contingent on a minimum of 30,000 cars/year, GM may be sitting on quite a stockpile of batteries.
I am surprised though that IMO, the used bolt market is actually pretty healthy. I'm not seeing the deep discounts that the Leaf suffered as they were starting to come off the first round of leases. Maybe it will take some time before they saturate Manheim.
You're, again, sharing misinformation.

The Bolt EV is ranked 7th among all cars for least time spent in inventory. The demand outstrips the supply, period. I don't know why it's so important to you to invalidate the Bolt EV, but reality isn't aligning with your agenda. I know you'd probably claim that I'm just being biased toward the Bolt EV, but I'm not. Taking an objective look at the market, ALL EVs are supply constrained right now (due to global battery production). Even Tesla, though by a lesser amount. The market's appetite for EVs exceeds supply, and that's universal.

As for GM stockpiling batteries, they do a lot of testing, and their robust service and parts network requires them to have enough parts to support the fleet, even after the car is out of production. Is that number equal to 20% (5,000 out of the 30,000 annual allocation)? Possibly. Regardless, it wasn't some stockpiling excess batteries but rather GM's longstanding partnership with LG, including providing LG with battery and electronics production facilities explains all you need to know about their "deal." The reason LG was upset that the price got leaked is because other customers who haven't done nearly as much as GM has as a partner might think they would be entitled to the same "deal."
 

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Ok, good to know. I was posting the experience in the midwest of availability because I wasn't comprehending nor following some of the comments above. I kept seeing statements that gave me a perception that differed from the line of Bolts I see on the lots at the dealerships, examples like;
"GM didn't have enough inventory to fill their standing orders, especially in Europe. So people were already clamoring."
"Limited availability" (Bold in the post)
"The main issue is availability."
Out here, there is availability if anyone wants one, plus it's not a bad road trip.
I don't think you understand what "supply constrained" means. This is like arguing with a climate change denier because there's a cold day in June or snow in November. It's not a question of whether you have Bolt EVs in inventory, it's about how long those EVs sit in inventory. I'm sure you can look up Chevy TrailBlazers and find hundreds of them on dealership lots near you, too, yet this is also true:

 

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Ok, good to know. I was posting the experience in the midwest of availability because I wasn't comprehending nor following some of the comments above. I kept seeing statements that gave me a perception that differed from the line of Bolts I see on the lots at the dealerships, examples like;
"GM didn't have enough inventory to fill their standing orders, especially in Europe. So people were already clamoring."
"Limited availability" (Bold in the post)
"The main issue is availability."
Out here, there is availability if anyone wants one, plus it's not a bad road trip.
I think what's confusing is that there's a theory that 6 weeks languishing on the lot constitutes a supply constraint because other cars sit longer. It comes down to relativity. Evidently it never occurred to the those that think that way that the cars that sat 7 weeks or 8 weeks are also not in demand, just more so. Comparatively the bolt may seem as though it has more demand due to it's average time between manufacture and registration from maybe an Equinox but that's ignoring the fact that they sell 12 times as many Equinox's.
Take for example the Impala which sold 25,455 units Q3 compared to the Bolt which sold 5,682. I think there's maybe 1,500 Chevy dealers qualified to sell the Bolt which works out to about 1 Bolt/month on average per dealer. We're not talking about big numbers here anyway. If the Malibu only sold 5,000 units in 3 months, would it even be in the lineup? That kind of explains the Bolts purpose to GM. They never had any intention to sell 50,000/year. And now they're struggling to sell half that. I'm just not going to try and sugarcoat something that just isn't what we'd like to believe.
Flame away.
I just did a quick cars.com search for new bolts and there are over 3,000 available today. By definition, that is demand constrained. Especially if they take more than a week to find a buyer.
 

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I think what's confusing is that there's a theory that 6 weeks languishing on the lot constitutes a supply constraint because other cars sit longer. It comes down to relativity. Evidently it never occurred to the those that think that way that the cars that sat 7 weeks or 8 weeks are also not in demand, just more so. Comparatively the bolt may seem as though it has more demand due to it's average time between manufacture and registration from maybe an Equinox but that's ignoring the fact that they sell 12 times as many Equinox's.
Take for example the Impala which sold 25,455 units Q3 compared to the Bolt which sold 5,682. I think there's maybe 1,500 Chevy dealers qualified to sell the Bolt which works out to about 1 Bolt/month on average per dealer. We're not talking about big numbers here anyway. If the Malibu only sold 5,000 units in 3 months, would it even be in the lineup? That kind of explains the Bolts purpose to GM. They never had any intention to sell 50,000/year. And now they're struggling to sell half that. I'm just not going to try and sugarcoat something that just isn't what we'd like to believe.
Flame away.
I just did a quick cars.com search for new bolts and there are over 3,000 available today. By definition, that is demand constrained. Especially if they take more than a week to find a buyer.
And people don't seem to understand the concept that if 30,000 units of a car could sell in a year, but only 25,000 units were built, that car is (by definition) supply constrained.
 

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And people don't seem to understand the concept that if 30,000 units of a car could sell in a year, but only 25,000 units were built, that car is (by definition) supply constrained.
Yes, I am in that category and trying to come up to speed with the way the business of cars is. I understand what's being said, but have to admit it's still being absorbed and not fully implanted.
 

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I don't think you understand what "supply constrained" means. This is like arguing with a climate change denier because there's a cold day in June or snow in November. It's not a question of whether you have Bolt EVs in inventory, it's about how long those EVs sit in inventory. I'm sure you can look up Chevy TrailBlazers and find hundreds of them on dealership lots near you, too, yet this is also true:

Yes, correct. I am learning slowly. I inferred that it was hard to get one, I connected dots that I should not have in hindsight because I wasn't on the same page of the discussion and not 100% understanding it. I also took too many of the words literally instead of looking at what the meaning behind the discussion and points were actually saying. That's on me and my bad.
 

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Yes, I am in that category and trying to come up to speed with the way the business of cars is. I understand what's being said, but have to admit it's still being absorbed and not fully implanted.
Yes, correct. I am learning slowly. I inferred that it was hard to get one, I connected dots that I should not have in hindsight because I wasn't on the same page of the discussion and not 100% understanding it. I also took too many of the words literally instead of looking at what the meaning behind the discussion and points were actually saying. That's on me and my bad.
What I'm saying is in the most generic, lay-person way I can. The confusion seems to be coming from people with agendas who want to conflate inventory with overall demand for a vehicle. There may be ways in which the two are tied, but ultimately, local, regional, and even national inventories don't necessarily represent the overall demand for a vehicle. People claimed that the Bolt EV was "languishing" on dealership lots because GM happened to deliver 1,000+ to California in a single week. However, at that same time, 5,000 people in Norway were waiting for their cars, and people in half the other U.S. states couldn't get one. There is a group on BoltStats! called "Bolt Smugglers" for a reason.
 

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So I'm watching all the coverage of Battery Day and the back-slapping that Tesla has a $25k electric car on its strategic roadmap - three years away, which is usually labeled "vaporware" by the hivemind but still: yay - and left wondering, aren't we already there? Doesn't a 2020 Chevy Bolt, available in many primary EV markets with between $10-15k in discounts off the dated MSRP, now qualify as the affordable EV for the masses, right here, right now?!

I get that the more fundamentalist wing of the Teslarati will simply say "Not a Tesla..." but there's something about that rebuttal that doesn't scream considered, to me. After all, at this low price point, you're not going to get a lot of the bells and whistles that many extol as the key selling point of a Tesla. It might manage a slightly quicker 0-60mph time, but low six seconds is already pretty nippy and the frugal car buyer is much less concerned with this aspect of performance. Yes, the Supercharger network will be a distinction, but the public DCFC network will look completely different by 2024, so that argument is also a nonstarter.

I might well be missing something here, so please shoot some holes in this thought if you think it's a stretch to call the current Bolt EV the $25,000 electric car that's already available :)
Tesla is electric BMW. They're marketed towards that crowd, and attract that kind of client. To them, no lowly POS Chevy will ever be good enough, no matter how properly good it is. This is your stereotypical Tesla fanboy.
 
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The Chevy Bolt EV is #7 among all cars for the least time spent in inventory. That's an impressive show of demand, especially because it's extremely difficult to even get them outside of CARB states. One of the biggest gripes is that it's hard to get a test drive in non-CARB states because the Bolt EVs that are sent there are sold before anyone can test drive them.

I also wouldn't let depreciation be a guide for demand. Americans are really bad about "used" anything. There's a stigma against buying used, and I'm convinced that most Americans could cut their budgets in half simply by only buying pre-owned goods. The only reason Tesla EVs maintain their original value so much better than other EVs is because Tesla as a company is actively buying back their vehicles in order to resell them as certified pre-owned (unlocking features which allow them to sell at a higher profit).
Also, on the depreciation problem. When I purchased my Bolt in 2018 it had around $6,000 off MSRP and a 7,500 tax credit, so I paid out the door right around $30,000 (I have posts on here from that time with more accurate numbers). If I sold it used a year later, for 25,000 it would have been $5,000 of depreciation (very reasonable) but technically, sticker price was nearly 45,000 so the perceived depreciation would have been $20,000. So real world around 16% depreciation (based on $30,000 and $5,000)... on paper almost 45% depreciation (based on $45,000 and $20,000).

Keith
 

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Also, on the depreciation problem. When I purchased my Bolt in 2018 it had around $6,000 off MSRP and a 7,500 tax credit, so I paid out the door right around $30,000 (I have posts on here from that time with more accurate numbers). If I sold it used a year later, for 25,000 it would have been $5,000 of depreciation (very reasonable) but technically, sticker price was nearly 45,000 so the perceived depreciation would have been $20,000. So real world around 16% depreciation (based on $30,000 and $5,000)... on paper almost 45% depreciation (based on $45,000 and $20,000).

Keith
This has been a perennial problem with EVs. The depreciation looks terrible on paper. It is always compared to MSRP, which is nowhere near the actual purchase price. If I try to find a used 2019 Bolt, it will be almost as expensive as a branch new 2020 Bolt (after incentives), despite having the older 60kWh battery.
 

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Also, on the depreciation problem. When I purchased my Bolt in 2018 it had around $6,000 off MSRP and a 7,500 tax credit, so I paid out the door right around $30,000 (I have posts on here from that time with more accurate numbers). If I sold it used a year later, for 25,000 it would have been $5,000 of depreciation (very reasonable) but technically, sticker price was nearly 45,000 so the perceived depreciation would have been $20,000. So real world around 16% depreciation (based on $30,000 and $5,000)... on paper almost 45% depreciation (based on $45,000 and $20,000).

Keith
This has been a perennial problem with EVs. The depreciation looks terrible on paper. It is always compared to MSRP, which is nowhere near the actual purchase price. If I try to find a used 2019 Bolt, it will be almost as expensive as a branch new 2020 Bolt (after incentives), despite having the older 60kWh battery.
My first experience with this was helping a friend who hit hard economic times and needed to downgrade from a $50,000 SUV to a $20,000 sedan. He still owed over $40,000 on the SUV, and when he went to trade it in, he was quoted something around half of the original price. He couldn't believe it because the SUV was only about a year and a half old. The sales rep explained that, over the SUV's life, it had received promotional discounts of over $12,000 (my friend had passed on the $5,000 at the time in lieu of 0% APR), and regardless of whether someone actually cashed in on those discounts, the trade in value assumed that they had. So driving off the lot brand new (per trade in value), the SUV was worth less than $38,000. The year and a half of driving took another third or so off of that. So despite making principal only payments for the last year and a half, he was still underwater by something like 15 grand.

Is it fair that all cars of a particular model depreciate by an amount equal to the greatest of all discounts available during their time on the market? Probably not, but that's the way it is.
 

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Tesla is electric BMW. They're marketed towards that crowd, and attract that kind of client. To them, no lowly POS Chevy will ever be good enough, no matter how properly good it is. This is your stereotypical Tesla fanboy.
OMG, please tell me you don't believe your own ****.
 

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