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If a certain someone said the earth is round the entire mainstream media would become flat earthers. So, if we want EV's to become a big thing we NEED to get the POTUS to denounce them.

Keith
Please Keith, don't say that....

Not everyone studies all the Medias' opinions. some have a life...

Do you really want to rally the Deplorables?
I, for one, am glad that EVs are no longer politicized. It really sucked when our local California dealerships refused to sell "Obummer's cars." I couldn't buy or get a Chevrolet Volt serviced locally (I know for a fact that I was the only plug-in vehicle owner in a four country spread for nearly four years), and my family had to settle for a standard C-MAX when what they wanted was an Energi.
 

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If a certain someone said the earth is round the entire mainstream media would become flat earthers. So, if we want EV's to become a big thing we NEED to get the POTUS to denounce them.

Keith
LOL! Well the flip side is that the other half that are POTUS fans would also become anti-EV. Idealougues abound everywhere you look. The vacuum left by abandoning traditional religion must be filled, and political saviors are a natural shoe-in.
 

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I, for one, am glad that EVs are no longer politicized. It really sucked when our local California dealerships refused to sell "Obummer's cars." I couldn't buy or get a Chevrolet Volt serviced locally (I know for a fact that I was the only plug-in vehicle owner in a four country spread for nearly four years), and my family had to settle for a standard C-MAX when what they wanted was an Energi.
Gadzooks! Reports of California dealers refusing to sell energy-efficient cars? Over recent years, we here in WA couldn't get Volts and later the Spark and later still the Bolt, because all the production was going to CA and OR; states which wisely passed legislation requiring the sale of hybrid and/or ZEV vehicles. There were no Bolts available for sale in Spokane, WA until April, 2017. We bought the first one and at full retail; there were no discounts from the dealer or GM. We did get the Federal Income Tax and partial state sales tax benefits. The net on our Premier was about $35k.

jack vines

Off topic, but the declining cost of Volts was previously detailed at length. Our visit to buy our Bolt was our first on a new car dealer lot in several years. At Camp Chevrolet, we saw enough Volts in employee parking that I asked the finance manager about them. She said, "I've bought two Volts; it's the best deal GM has had for the past couple of years."
 

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Gadzooks! Reports of California dealers refusing to sell energy-efficient cars? Over recent years, we here in WA couldn't get Volts and later the Spark and later still the Bolt, because all the production was going to CA and OR; states which wisely passed legislation requiring the sale of hybrid and/or ZEV vehicles. There were no Bolts available for sale in Spokane, WA until April, 2017. We bought the first one and at full retail; there were no discounts from the dealer or GM. We did get the Federal Income Tax and partial state sales tax benefits. The net on our Premier was about $35k.

jack vines

Off topic, but the declining cost of Volts was previously detailed at length. Our visit to buy our Bolt was our first on a new car dealer lot in several years. At Camp Chevrolet, we saw enough Volts in employee parking that I asked the finance manager about them. She said, "I've bought two Volts; it's the best deal GM has had for the past couple of years."
There are 58 counties in California, and a majority of them are unwaveringly Red. The minority of Blue counties, however, are home to a majority of the population. That's why you see so many movements to split the state. A majority of people in those rural counties feel like subjects rather than participants in the State Government.
 

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There are 58 counties in California, and a majority of them are unwaveringly Red. The minority of Blue counties, however, are home to a majority of the population. That's why you see so many movements to split the state. A majority of people in those rural counties feel like subjects rather than participants in the State Government.
Same is true in almost every state. CO is primarily blue in 3-4 counties, red everywhere else.
 

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Same is true in almost every state. CO is primarily blue in 3-4 counties, red everywhere else.
I really don't know why the people here are complaining, though. The Blue counties are still electing Republicans, though they go by a different name in California. I think they call themselves "Democrats." :unsure: To me it doesn't really matter. I don't send them millions of dollars every year either party, so they don't have to bother representing me.
 

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I really don't know why the people here are complaining, though. The Blue counties are still electing Republicans, though they go by a different name in California. I think they call themselves "Democrats." :unsure: To me it doesn't really matter. I don't send them millions of dollars every year either party, so they don't have to bother representing me.
Right, I once met a state Senator from USVI. He ran as a democrat, but talked like a republican. I asked him why, his response was that there was no chance of being elected as a republican due to demographics and public/press biases.

Sad, our politicians are already dishonest and we cultivate this even further.
 

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Sure, but my point is that people don't know that GM has a ~$25k EV named the Bolt. If people looked it up, they would see it listed with an MSRP of $40k, so that might quickly turn people away if they dig no deeper.
Fair enough!
You know what would really be telling is to be able to see the profiles of the people buying a Chevy Bolt ... and also where this new Bolt purchase "slots" in their stable of vehicles. I'm sure what you'd find is ... it's a very narrow profile of buyers, and certainly not one that beckons for producing any more units than what GM is already producing (regardless of battery availability). And that's why (I believe) GM views the Bolt as primarily a "test balloon", "proof of concept", or a "toes in the water" vehicle intended to simply position the company for the next phase of EV production, where the vehicles will start to size up, attracting a broader profile of buyers, where the real money will ultimately be made.
 

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You know what would really be telling is to be able to see the profiles of the people buying a Chevy Bolt ... and also where this new Bolt purchase "slots" in their stable of vehicles. I'm sure what you'd find is ... it's a very narrow profile of buyers, and certainly not one that beckons for producing any more units than what GM is already producing (regardless of battery availability). And that's why (I believe) GM views the Bolt as primarily a "test balloon", "proof of concept", or a "toes in the water" vehicle intended to simply position the company for the next phase of EV production, where the vehicles will start to size up, attracting a broader profile of buyers, where the real money will ultimately be made.
I haven't seen any such data gathered, but based on my personal experiences, I can say that it's a fairly diverse population with a variety of other vehicles and driving needs. Perhaps you should make a thread? We have a lot of Bolt EV owners here to gather data from.
 

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We have a lot of Bolt EV owners here to gather data from.
There's this:
 

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... and also where this new Bolt purchase "slots" in their stable of vehicles.
I've got a tractor, boat, motorcycle, mini-bike, bicycle, 2 vans, 2 4x4s, 4 sedans, one sports car, and the Bolt is a hatch. My wife has her one car that she doesn't let me drive because she figures I have enough. Technically one van is hers but somehow I'm the one taking care of it. One 4x4 is my son's, but somehow it's sitting in my yard. I think I need an airplane. Or another hole in my head.
 

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I've got a tractor, boat, motorcycle, mini-bike, bicycle, 2 vans, 2 4x4s, 4 sedans, one sports car, and the Bolt is a hatch. My wife has her one car that she doesn't let me drive because she figures I have enough. Technically one van is hers but somehow I'm the one taking care of it. One 4x4 is my son's, but somehow it's sitting in my yard. I think I need an airplane. Or another hole in my head.
We have a very diverse fleet here as well: 2020 Bolt Priemier, 2012 Nissan LEAF SL, 2016 Subaru Crosstrek (Mates), 2015 Chevy Colorado Z71 Trail Boss, 2004 Saturn ION Redline, 1995 Buick Roadmaster Estate Wagon, 1993 Cadillac Allante (newest acquisition), 2012 Yamaha V-Star custom, 2002 Yamaha V-Star 650 (both belong to Mate), and my 2017 Triumph Tiger 800 XCx, to include the three motorcycles.
 
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They did with the Volt, I think it was a 5,000 price cut from one year to the next with MORE features added. This was within the 1st generation. When they went to the second generation it got another price cut (not as big) and was a huge improvement in range and features. Here is the break down:

2011 $41,000
2012 $40,000
2013 $40,000
2014 $35,000
2015 $35,000
2016 $34,000
2017 $34,000
2018 $34,100
2019 $33,520

Later,

Keith
Interesting, there is precedent, even with GM...
 

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Bolt battery fires? How about TESLA battery fires?
Technically, these aren't Bolt EV "battery" fires. Some of the fires appeared to have spread to the battery, but these fires are more likely caused by connectors or wiring. With a number of the Tesla fires, the fire started from inside the battery case. Sometimes it was pierced from an outside object, but others seem to be something internal.

Regardless, statistically, EVs are still far less likely to catch fire than gas cars, but when EVs catch fire, it is a bit more spectacular.
 

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The dealership model is a legacy institution and wouldn't exist if the industry started today. I prefer real-time bottom line pricing, just like everything else. I'm just glad I don't have to haggle the price of every can of beans, cut of steak, toilet paper... the automotive industry and mattress industries are among the few remaining "haggle" (hassle) industries.
Probably not, that is why I asked what you would like to see it move towards.

Think of it this way, what would be the vehicle price if we could purchase vehicles for the price dealerships pay? No cut going to build and maintain those fancy showrooms, no paying secretaries to keep fresh coffee available, no paying salesman salaries, no paying pit boss salaries... why do we want to pay salaries to people who pay good cop / bad cop anyhow? "I'll go ask my boss, but he's not going to like this".
But we can't, they are providing a service and we are paying them for that service one way or another. It is similar to the Best Buy VS Amazon models. Some folks prefer to go see what they are buying first, especially a vehicle. I would hypothesize that the lack of Tesla showrooms and service centers has hurt sales. We have no haggle dealerships near me, they do OK, but many folks use that price as a starting point and head to the high volume dealer to beat the deal. I would be fine with Carvana if I was buying another Bolt as I know what I am getting, but not if I was interested in a Mach-E. You can tune the model without eliminating the parts that add value, showroom, testdrive, service, etc. Dealership and fixed price are not mutually exclusive
 

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You know what would really be telling is to be able to see the profiles of the people buying a Chevy Bolt ... and also where this new Bolt purchase "slots" in their stable of vehicles.
The Bolt is my primary vehicle. I have a camperized van along the lines of a VW Westfalia, but that's only used for camping trips and is often in storage uninsured for substantial periods of time. All other trips, including multi-day trips where I stay in hotels, are done in the Bolt. The Bolt is also used to transport my kayaks (on a roof rack), bicycles (on a hitch-mounted bike rack), and anything else I need to haul. From my point of view the Bolt is a mainstream car, exactly the kind of vehicle that I've always bought over the past 4 decades, except that it's electric.
 

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Well, when we were shopping for a Bolt for my daughter, the urgency was that it was set to expire at the end of September according to all the ads. We weren't able to come to amicable terms by then so we've taken a break from actively looking. If it is still in effect, then I may get back into it. Was kind of hoping some of the other players would pony up similar incentives like the $6,500 dealer discounts on top of the $8,500 for the Bolt. Even if just the dealers were as motivated it would be comparable with the $7,500 Federal tax Credit in lieu of the manufacturers discount.
Here in AZ I'm seeing dealers post $8,500 from GM; $3,500 from the dealer and $3,000 from Costco so $15,000 total bringing $40,000 down to $25,000.
 

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The dealership model is a legacy institution and wouldn't exist if the industry started today.
Probably not, that is why I asked what you would like to see it move towards.
I think the future of the dealership model hinges on the success of Electric Vehicles. If EVs go mainstream, and it's looking like they will, the smaller dealerships will slowly start disappearing because they'll lose that Service money propping up the business.

I'd be fine with large regional dealerships (or corporate stores) up to 200 miles away (almost like Distribution Centers, but where you could also buy). And while I think the "Test Drive" is grossly overrated, you might also want small "satellite" stores with a representative model vehicle that you could sit in just to get a feel for interior space, look, and feel. To me, that's good enough. Then just purchase online and ship it to my house.
 

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I think there will be a $25K hatchback, from Tesla out of China in the not too distant future, at least for the rest of the world. China is doing better than Europe or the US with pandemic control measures, so far. This may mean EVs from China, even from US and European brands for the near term.

 
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