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Between the two cars, I'm more annoyed by the fact that I have to double tap the shifter down every time in the Bolt to enable L mode than I am about how Tesla implemented regen and one pedal driving. I understand Chevy may have fixed this in the upcoming Bolt and EUV, hopefully they did. I don't mention this to criticize Chevy and praise Tesla, I mention it to point out that what bothers one person is no big deal to another. Obviously the way Tesla implemented regen is a big deal to you, it isn't to me. I'm just giving another perspective to point out that with how I drive both cars, they behave exactly the same, and I like it.
How many screen presses and levels into the UI is the adjustment from Low to Standard regen?
 

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So if you select either "creep" or "hold" you can still drive without one pedal style like before.
Maybe I'm not understanding your point.
I think you are. He's pointing out that, thanks to blended braking, a Bolt EV owner can drive in D (if they prefer) while still enjoying the maximum amount of regen available. By contrast, if a Model 3 owner selects the lowest regen setting, they will by default be using more friction brakes in order to enjoy the same driving style. Essentially, the Bolt EV (or other EVs with blended braking) don't force the driver to choose.
 

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...Maybe I'm not understanding your point.
'Standard' regen requires '1 Pedal' driving, correct? Foot off that Go Pedal = lots of regen and Brake lights.

The 'Low' regen setting allows the car to coast more, similar to a conventional ICE with automatic transmission, correct?
But then to slow any quicker than 'Low regen' requires the Brake Pedal, which on a Tesla is just plain Old-School Friction Brakes, correct?

Maybe I'm not correct about this.....:unsure:

I do know that GM EV's have awesome Blended Brakes that don't require the 1 Pedal style of driving to get all the regen available up to the max, then the Friction Brakes blend in.(y)
 

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Between the two cars, I'm more annoyed by the fact that I have to double tap the shifter down every time in the Bolt to enable L mode than I am about how Tesla implemented regen and one pedal driving. I understand Chevy may have fixed this in the upcoming Bolt and EUV, hopefully they did. I don't mention this to criticize Chevy and praise Tesla, I mention it to point out that what bothers one person is no big deal to another. Obviously the way Tesla implemented regen is a big deal to you, it isn't to me. I'm just giving another perspective to point out that with how I drive both cars, they behave exactly the same, and I like it.
The 2021 Bolt has a one-pedal driving switch that you can leave on.
 

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Some love 1 Pedal driving.
Some don't want to adopt to this new way of driving a car.
Some (like myself) enjoy having the option. For about 7 months of the year, I use 1-pedal driving. However, for 5 months of the year (the approximate duration of winter in upstate NY), the roads are slick. 1-pedal driving in a FWD car only brakes with two of the wheels. This is not a good thing on snow and ice. During the winter I drive almost exclusively in D, and like that the friction brakes will slow down the rear wheels.
 

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'Standard' regen requires '1 Pedal' driving, correct? Foot off that Go Pedal = lots of regen and Brake lights.

The 'Low' regen setting allows the car to coast more, similar to a conventional ICE with automatic transmission, correct?
But then to slow any quicker than 'Low regen' requires the Brake Pedal, which on a Tesla is just plain Old-School Friction Brakes, correct?

Maybe I'm not correct about this.....:unsure:

I do know that GM EV's have awesome Blended Brakes that don't require the 1 Pedal style of driving to get all the regen available up to the max, then the Friction Brakes blend in.(y)
You're close. Standard or Low regen aren't tied to the one pedal driving characteristics. That is addressed under the "stopping mode" menu. It's also confusing that they call "Low" regen the lesser regen and Standard is the more aggressive regen. Where the Bolt is better is that you can switch between Low and Standard with the paddle. You cannot switch regen aggressiveness on the fly on a Tesla. You can't even switch them at a stop unless you put it in Park. Not a big deal as I did it today on my way to a meeting at a red light but still, not as convenient as the Bolt.

And conversely, "stopping mode" has no effect on regen. If I set it on Low regen, and stopping mode is set to Roll, it would mimic a typical ICEV with a standard transmission (or automatic as you mentioned). If I back off on the accelerator, there will be some regen if the conditions mentioned upthread are met. This slight regen would be about what you might expect when cruising in 5th gear at 60 mph and let off on the throttle in the ICEV. There would be some compression braking and you would coast a bit. When you are approaching your planned stop, you would slowly apply the brakes which would add more stopping power. That's what Low regen with Roll does. The biggest difference would be if you pushed in the clutch after letting off the throttle in the stick shift ICEV, you would coast more than if you let 5th gear compression gearing do some of the work.

In a Tesla, AFAIK, there is no way to turn off regen completely. I haven't used Low in years but from what I remember it coasts pretty good but probably not like neutral (haven't tried that in the Tesla but used to do it in the Leaf a bunch). This is why some people like to set their regen to Low when road tripping on the interstate as it can be more efficient to use less regen and more gravity stopping. This becomes more apparent when regen is set to Standard since it's a noticable drag once you let off the accelerator which as mentioned earlier is less efficient than just coasting to a gravity stop. Where there's heat, there's waste. So your second statement is pretty close. You are correct that if you let off the accelerator in Standard (depending on how fast you are going), the brake lights do come on, just not the mechanical brakes (probably an inertia sensor). The mechanical brakes only come on automatically when in Hold mode setting on the "Stopping Mode" dialogue box below about 5 mph. This is what I assumed was blended braking.

But just to be clear, 1 pedal style in a Tesla has no effect on regen, it only becomes noticable below about 5 mph and it's just an activation of the mechanical brake to take it from 5 mph to 0 mph, similar to the Leaf I think.

Standard (max) regen or Low regen can both use either:
  • One pedal stopping
or
  • Creep mode
or
  • Roll (this is like being in neutral at a stop, it will roll backwards if on a hill)
There's also the Hold function at a stop that will override all of them. Push the brake and hold for 2 seconds at a stop and the "hold" setting keeps the car in a parking brake setting until you press the accelerator.

Of course none of these really come into play if you are in TACC mode which will automatically accelerate and stop based on the car in front of you and will now read green lights and red lights so you don't have to touch either pedal when in traffic. If you are the first car at a red light though, you will need to press the accelerator to get started but once moving, TACC takes over again.

The most it will regen is in Standard which would still require mechanical braking in a panic stop. I assume that's the same in the Bolt but that may be my misunderstanding of what Blended Brake means. I assumed it meant a combination of mechanical and electrical transference of kinetic energy that is modulated via computer to the most optimal balance pending the batteries capacity to absorb the energy.
Where I thought Tesla deviated from the technical definition was that the modulation was done manually via the brake pedal while regen was still doing what it always did. I know this is true as my green regen bar doesn't change when I add mechanical braking. Evidently blended braking is all modulation is handled via regen and thus electrical transference of energy only until such time as either the battery can't handle the current and the mechanical brakes are automatically modulated regardless of how hard you press the pedal.

I doubt though that you would be able to tell the difference between either car other than the level of regen's aggressiveness.
 

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Some (like myself) enjoy having the option. For about 7 months of the year, I use 1-pedal driving. However, for 5 months of the year (the approximate duration of winter in upstate NY), the roads are slick. 1-pedal driving in a FWD car only brakes with two of the wheels. This is not a good thing on snow and ice. During the winter I drive almost exclusively in D, and like that the friction brakes will slow down the rear wheels.
Yes. I consider myself almost exclusively a one-pedal driver, BUT... I do shut off one pedal driving in a number of circumstances. As you mentioned, winter. Also, gravel roads, where aggressive regeneration can cause fishtailing. Also if I feel like coasting to a light and don't feel like modulating the accelerator. A quick pull back on the gear shifter, and I'm back in D, coasting with only mild regen. Another quick pull, and I'm back in L. Easy peasey.
 

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Yes. I consider myself almost exclusively a one-pedal driver, BUT... I do shut off one pedal driving in a number of circumstances. As you mentioned, winter. Also, gravel roads, where aggressive regeneration can cause fishtailing.
What's the difference between controlling fishtailing in "D" mode by modulating the brake pedal vs. in "L" mode by modulating the accelerator pedal? It seems to me you should be able to apply the same deceleration force, it's just that you're doing it with a different method. With blended braking it's not as if you're get braking force on all four wheels in "D" mode unless you're pushing that pedal pretty aggressively, which is presumably what you're trying to avoid.
 

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What's the difference between controlling fishtailing in "D" mode by modulating the brake pedal vs. in "L" mode by modulating the accelerator pedal? It seems to me you should be able to apply the same deceleration force, it's just that you're doing it with a different method. With blended braking it's not as if you're get braking force on all four wheels in "D" mode unless you're pushing that pedal pretty aggressively, which is presumably what you're trying to avoid.
You're right for most circumstances; however, the times it has stood out to me are when I need to actually apply braking force. Because regenerative braking provides no braking to the rear wheels, moving suddenly from the accelerator to the brake in L can cause significantly more initial, front end braking than you might want while the rear is still free rolling. Even in those circumstances, the car has never gotten away from me, but I've felt that it has the potential to.

At the end of the day, the Bolt EV is a FWD car that is already prone to fishtailing in gravel, so that little bit of extra imbalance in the braking system only exacerbates that proclivity.
 

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My lease on my 2017 Bolt Premier with all the packages is up in October. It is a 39 month lease and I've been wrestling with the decision on what to do. Should I buy my Bolt, buy a new 2020 (or 2021) Bolt, wait for the new RAV4 Plug-in hybrid (I am able to do without the car for 6 months or more), go with the Kia Niro Plug-In Hybrid, or bite the financial bullet and buy a Tesla Model Y? I finally got the opportunity to test Drive the Model Y, and I have to say I was disappointed. I already knew that all of the Teslas lacked the blind-spot monitor tools present in virtually every other modern car. No warning lights in the side-view mirrors, and the monitor with the pictorial representation of the car and the lane on either side did not show overtaking traffic until it was at the rear bumper. Worse, along with no warning of overtaking or any other traffic to the side, the rear window seems like a ship's porthole, rendering the view to the rear from the interior mirror virtually worthless. The Bolt's camera-based rear-view mirror looks really good in comparison.

The Model Y (dual motor all-wheel drive) is certainly faster in acceleration, roomier, and more "gee-whiz" tech. However, the no birds-eye view and the horrible visibility pretty much disqualifies it for us. I'm really glad I took the test drive, as when I got in the Bolt to drive home, I patted it fondly.

I'm currently leaning towards keeping my Bolt, as I know it intimately, have had absolutely no problems with it in 3 years and 30,000 miles. There are no real advantages over the 2017 in the 2020, other than the 21 miles of additional range. I know how mine has been cared for, specially in the way most of my charging has been done using the hill mode, so only going to 80%, never draining below 30%, and never using level 3 charging. I charge at home using my JuiceBox 40, and given the range, I only charge about once/week (retired so no regular commute). The only potential downside is that I live in AZ, and, although garage kept, she has been subjected to some extreme temperatures.

Financially, many will say that keeping is a bad move. I got one of the first Bolts delivered in Tucson, and there were no incentives available with the exception of the $7,500 tax credit. As I get closer to my turn-in or buy for $25,000 date, I'll keep looking for a 2020 (or 2021) for $30K before tax, allowing me to get a new Bolt for a $5,000 difference.

Interesting times.

Ron
I live in Phoenix and love my 2020 Bolt. I like that I have all the options and with the xtra range we’ve driven up to Flagstaff numerous times with no range anxiety. I like the way it sits tall and is easy to get in and out of too. No complaints about it at all.
 

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Thans, Rich. I've come to the conclusion that as of right now, an electric car is not ideal for trips beyond the range of a 100% charge. For longer trips, it becomes more of a charging strategy "game", taking way too much attention. It can certainly be done, specially as the EA network becomes more reliable. I know we will get there, and I agree that more rapid charging and more charging locations is coming, and at that point, travel in an electric vehicle will become more about enjoying the trip and less about the charging game.

Ron
I am in the unique position to own both a Bolt (2019) and a Model 3. They are both great cars, but entirely different purposes. The Bolt is a very good around town, commuter car. I will never take it in a road trip. “Fast” charging is not that fast, and not enough stations. You are correct, it would be a charging game that would be no fun. The Tesla is a fantastic travel car. Chargers along all interstates, and the car plans your trip for you. The chargers are truly fast. We have taken many long road trips and they have been no issues at all. One day the generic charging network will be better, but for now, Tesla wins hands down for travel. Both are good for what I use them for.
 

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The difference is you must drive a Model 3 '1 Pedal' style. No choice if you want regen braking.

Some love 1 Pedal driving.
Some don't want to adopt to this new way of driving a car.

It is like driving with a Dead Man pedal.
You must keep your right foot planted and in control the whole time.
Take your foot off that dang pedal to scooch in the seat, adjust the twins, whatever, and you get Full Regen and Brake lights come on.
That is not correct. If you change the Tesla from Hold to Creep, then the car will use regen breaking until the speed is less than 1 mph and then will continue to creep, just as the name implies. Regen breaking and 1 petal driving are separate functions. The aggressiveness of regen is also selectable.
 

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I have a Model Y on order and expect to schedule delivery sometime in August when the new Tesla Service Center opens less than 10 miles from my home.
Where are they opening a new SC?

If they told you you could get delivery to your nearest SC, they lied. You can only take delivery of a Tesla in Mt Kisco, Brooklyn, or (I think) somewhere out on Long Island. You CANNOT take delivery of a Tesla in Henrietta/Rochester or Latham/Albany (which is why I now own a Bolt because Tesla promised "nearest service center" of Henrietta and then shafted me over to Mt Kisco, forcing me to cancel my order and file a credit card dispute over their bait-and-switch.)

As far as winters in NY - I kept my old Outback for long trips and winters. If I hadn't been planning on keeping the Outback, I wouldn't be driving an EV - not even a Tesla. I would have likely just bought a newer Outback.
 

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I’ll be turning in my 2017 Premiere next week. It’s been 3 years and 40k absolutely trouble-free miles. I really like the Bolt. One of the best cars I’ve ever owned. I’ll miss it. I was all set to get a redesigned 2021, but COVID got in the way.

Last week, my wife took delivery of her Tesla Model Y, and my Model Y should be here in the next week or two. Wow, what a car. My wife is in love with it, and I can’t wait for mine. Comfort, ride quality, performance, tech are all amazing. Yes, I wish they had 360 view, but at least they added the side-cameras, haha!!
 

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My lease on my 2017 Bolt Premier with all the packages is up in October. It is a 39 month lease and I've been wrestling with the decision on what to do. Should I buy my Bolt, buy a new 2020 (or 2021) Bolt, wait for the new RAV4 Plug-in hybrid (I am able to do without the car for 6 months or more), go with the Kia Niro Plug-In Hybrid, or bite the financial bullet and buy a Tesla Model Y? I finally got the opportunity to test Drive the Model Y, and I have to say I was disappointed. I already knew that all of the Teslas lacked the blind-spot monitor tools present in virtually every other modern car. No warning lights in the side-view mirrors, and the monitor with the pictorial representation of the car and the lane on either side did not show overtaking traffic until it was at the rear bumper. Worse, along with no warning of overtaking or any other traffic to the side, the rear window seems like a ship's porthole, rendering the view to the rear from the interior mirror virtually worthless. The Bolt's camera-based rear-view mirror looks really good in comparison.

The Model Y (dual motor all-wheel drive) is certainly faster in acceleration, roomier, and more "gee-whiz" tech. However, the no birds-eye view and the horrible visibility pretty much disqualifies it for us. I'm really glad I took the test drive, as when I got in the Bolt to drive home, I patted it fondly.

I'm currently leaning towards keeping my Bolt, as I know it intimately, have had absolutely no problems with it in 3 years and 30,000 miles. There are no real advantages over the 2017 in the 2020, other than the 21 miles of additional range. I know how mine has been cared for, specially in the way most of my charging has been done using the hill mode, so only going to 80%, never draining below 30%, and never using level 3 charging. I charge at home using my JuiceBox 40, and given the range, I only charge about once/week (retired so no regular commute). The only potential downside is that I live in AZ, and, although garage kept, she has been subjected to some extreme temperatures.

Financially, many will say that keeping is a bad move. I got one of the first Bolts delivered in Tucson, and there were no incentives available with the exception of the $7,500 tax credit. As I get closer to my turn-in or buy for $25,000 date, I'll keep looking for a 2020 (or 2021) for $30K before tax, allowing me to get a new Bolt for a $5,000 difference.

Interesting times.

Ron
Tesla vs Bolt = 2 different vehicles. I have 2019. I was on the original waiting list for a 3. But no hatch and DID on the center-stack, well that ended that. The interior of the Bolt is as my wife puts it is Holiday Inn style, cheap. HOWEVER, I really like the little ugly Honda FIT looking vehicle. It carries what I need. I have a hatch and the DID is where it should be. Visibility and lighting are good. If I had the $$ I would get a older Tesla S. The others are not even close to what I want.
Chevy should add electric to the front seats (or be able to swap seats from the Corvette with a plug in) and a sport package for the suspension and brakes, and maybe a bit of a motor upgrade for some fun track time.
 

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That is not correct. If you change the Tesla from Hold to Creep, then the car will use regen breaking until the speed is less than 1 mph and then will continue to creep, just as the name implies. Regen breaking and 1 petal driving are separate functions. The aggressiveness of regen is also selectable.
People still don't seem to understand what he is saying. Any time you press the brake pedal in a Tesla, you are engaging the friction brakes. That is not the case in EVs with blended braking systems.
 

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I'm outside of Milwaukee, WI and I found that L mode driving is quite helpful in winter snow conditions. I saw the comment that it's not ideal to double shift to get to L mode and I agree that it would be nice. And I saw the counter argument asking how many clicks in the UI to change it. 95% of my driving is in L and wish I could default that in the Bolt UI. The remaining time I'm not in L (and not in R) I could equally be in L and be fine. I like the pace of the braking that L gives coupled with the very effective traction control in the Bolt that in my driving conditions it handles in the snow well. I tend to drive cautiously in the winter, not like a Gripper but I haven't found myself getting into trouble with it through 2 full winters. I'm very impressed with the UI options that Tesla has. I agree that changing from one mode to another is more convenient in the Bolt, but I also would like, again, to see the Bolt have the level of customization and tech that Tesla has.
 

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People still don't seem to understand what he is saying. Any time you press the brake pedal in a Tesla, you are engaging the friction brakes. That is not the case in EVs with blended braking systems.
Are you sure? I still haven't got a straight answer about the Bolt despite many requests for an answer. People say that D mode in the Bolt applies friction braking immediately, but then others say it only engages after regen has been tapped out. This question is the biggest mystery surrounding all EVs.
 

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Thans, Rich. I've come to the conclusion that as of right now, an electric car is not ideal for trips beyond the range of a 100% charge. For longer trips, it becomes more of a charging strategy "game", taking way too much attention. It can certainly be done, specially as the EA network becomes more reliable. I know we will get there, and I agree that more rapid charging and more charging locations is coming, and at that point, travel in an electric vehicle will become more about enjoying the trip and less about the charging game.

Ron
I know you've ruled out the Model Y, but the "strategy game" as you call it for long distance EV travel virtually disappears with any Tesla. And, unfortunately for mass EV adoption, it seems that Tesla is the only EV manufacturer that has understood this issue from Day 1.

Almost three years ago when I first started logging into this forum, the great white hope was that charging infrastructure for CCS Combo vehicles would soon catch up with, and even surpass, what Tesla offers. Well soon has come and gone and despite signs of life from EA and a few others, we are still looking at a really substandard long distance charging experience compared to that offered by Tesla.

I really hope that we are still not having conversations in two or three more years about substandard DCFC charging experiences because such continued inadequacy will be the ultimate bottleneck for the average driver considering an EV rather than an ICE. And that doesn't even address the issue of the number of charging stalls being installed at any given location. If you think Thanksgiving week at San Luis Obispo or Kettleman City looks bad for Teslas, just imagine even 25% as many non-Tesla EVs trying to get home on a holiday weekend.
 

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Are you sure? I still haven't got a straight answer about the Bolt despite many requests for an answer. People say that D mode in the Bolt applies friction braking immediately, but then others say it only engages after regen has been tapped out. This question is the biggest mystery surrounding all EVs.
Yes, I'm sure. The Bolt EV will apply the maximum regen available through the brake pedal before engaging the friction brakes. The Porsche Taycan's brake pedal works the same way.
 
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