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Can you post a proof of that ? Unless you are talking about a deserted DCFC area, I can hardly see that happening. 2 hours or so, yes. I can get it. 8 hours, no way !

For exemple, for going to the same destination, a Bolt EV vs a Tesla LR 19 inches is behind by 1 hour 22 mins. The distance between A and B = 894 km (555 miles).

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I also ran the SR+ Model 3 which took 5 hours of charging for the same trip but had to stop twice as often @ avg. 18 minutes/stop.
 

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I also ran the SR+ Model 3 which took 5 hours of charging for the same trip but had to stop twice as often @ avg. 18 minutes/stop.
Thank you !
But I also want to say that ABRP is using 18.4 kWh/100 km by default at 110 km/h which is wrong based on my observations. The better value would be 16.3 kWh/100 km for 110 km/h based on my experience. And this only would make a whole difference between the 2 in my exemple, less than one hour difference (50 mins more precisely). Yes, the charging time is no doubt different, but again, Tesla is great when you have the charging network around. Without it, the Tesla is just as good as a Bolt EV. Well, less, because it is not a hatchback 🙈

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I own my 2017 Bolt (well making payments but i didn't lease (i think leases are one of the worst things someone can do with a car but thats another discussion)). In a couple of years i am thinking of getting an EV thats bigger than the Bolt. The Model Y is on the list but i am concerned about it but not about fit and finish which can be fixed, i'm having a hard time with a Tesla for which might be considered dumb reasons but they are 3. 1. No heated steering wheel, seems like that should be a standard on EVs. 2. No cooled seats. I know our Bolts don't have that but my wife's Kia Niro PHEV has them and it is really nice to not have swamp ass on a long trip. Seems weird that Teslas don't have this. 3. No Apple CarPlay. This one is the least important but i'd still miss it. I know those things seem pretty small but they really are building in my mind as deal breakers.

I'm still waiting on more info on some more coming up like the ID4 from VW, the Mach E which we do know a bunch about. The Bolt EUV which seems compelling but if it has the same battery as the regular Bolt seems like there would be a range hit since its bigger but again we don't know yet. Also the ID Buzz which seems like it would be super cool but it'll probably expensive and since its a box not very aerodynamic. The Nissan Arya seems cool but from what i read the cargo space is less than the current Bolt seems weird since its bigger. Rivian would be cool too but way too pricey and it won't fit in my garage (plus it seems like vaporware at this point who knows). CyberTruck, again super cool but i can't fit it in my garage its probably 2 feet too long to close the door.

Maybe i'm crazy who knows, I do know that i'll never buy another ICE car ever. I just need something that is like 10% bigger than the Bolt.
 

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I own my 2017 Bolt (well making payments but i didn't lease (i think leases are one of the worst things someone can do with a car but thats another discussion)). In a couple of years i am thinking of getting an EV thats bigger than the Bolt. The Model Y is on the list but i am concerned about it but not about fit and finish which can be fixed, i'm having a hard time with a Tesla for which might be considered dumb reasons but they are 3. 1. No heated steering wheel, seems like that should be a standard on EVs. 2. No cooled seats. I know our Bolts don't have that but my wife's Kia Niro PHEV has them and it is really nice to not have swamp ass on a long trip. Seems weird that Teslas don't have this. 3. No Apple CarPlay. This one is the least important but i'd still miss it. I know those things seem pretty small but they really are building in my mind as deal breakers.

I'm still waiting on more info on some more coming up like the ID4 from VW, the Mach E which we do know a bunch about. The Bolt EUV which seems compelling but if it has the same battery as the regular Bolt seems like there would be a range hit since its bigger but again we don't know yet. Also the ID Buzz which seems like it would be super cool but it'll probably expensive and since its a box not very aerodynamic. The Nissan Arya seems cool but from what i read the cargo space is less than the current Bolt seems weird since its bigger. Rivian would be cool too but way too pricey and it won't fit in my garage (plus it seems like vaporware at this point who knows). CyberTruck, again super cool but i can't fit it in my garage its probably 2 feet too long to close the door.

Maybe i'm crazy who knows, I do know that i'll never buy another ICE car ever. I just need something that is like 10% bigger than the Bolt.
Those are all valid concerns and the lack of a heated steering wheel baffles me. Have you considered the e-tron? Depending on how much you road trip, these have one of the nicest interiors and features. As for tech, it out Tesla’s a Tesla. It’s Achilles heel is efficiency but as the infrastructure becomes more robust and hopefully more dependable, it’s comparable to road tripping in a bolt or Tesla SR+. But the best part is the discounts and available tax credit put it into Model Y territory I think.
 

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Yes, if buying from Tesla. If you buy a Model 3 without Auto Pilot in a private party sale, I"m thinking you'd have to pay the 3k it cost to add it back, which I think was the price for the option. A lot changed over the years. From what I can tell, if the car was purchased with FSD then FSD remains. If the car came with EAP then EAP is dropped and basic Auto Pilot is included in its place. Not everyone who bought a 2017/2018 car necessarily got it with AP. So it's kind of nice that Tesla now includes it. But it's not cool that if the person bought EAP (Enhanced Auto Pilot) they then remove it. But honestly, FSD is only a theory. AP works well on the highway and is a good solution to relieve the burden of commuting. So I think adding AP to those cars without it is a nice perk.

Anyway, as one last bit of advice, if shopping for a used 3 you have to check inventory once or twice a day. It can change a lot. Cars are sold and added quite often. I would only consider low mileage 10-15k mile cars as those were most likely treated well. Only consider ones with good, high quality photos--most cars have good photos. Some cars have interiors that look as if pigs lived in them. I just don't get that. Others are pristine. Be patient. There really are unicorns out there. I"m still shocked that my car does not have a single chip or scratch on the paint.
 

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Sorry, to answer your question, I know that FSD, when purchased, travels with the car and not the prior owner. So if the car has FSD then I'm pretty sure you have it as well. There is one example on the internet where FSD was thought to be part of a car in a sale that involved a used car dealer and then Tesla removed it. Not quite sure how that happened. But I have the feeling the prior owner had it turned on somehow without paying for it and then Tesla turned it off once they realized the mistake. If buying from a private party I think you can see their purchases in their Tesla account. That would be one way to verify.
 

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Thank you !
But I also want to say that ABRP is using 18.4 kWh/100 km by default at 110 km/h which is wrong based on my observations. The better value would be 16.3 kWh/100 km for 110 km/h based on my experience. And this only would make a whole difference between the 2 in my exemple, less than one hour difference (50 mins more precisely). Yes, the charging time is no doubt different, but again, Tesla is great when you have the charging network around. Without it, the Tesla is just as good as a Bolt EV. Well, less, because it is not a hatchback 🙈

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My understanding is that ABRP downloads efficiency data which are used to determine wH/mile per model. They recently got enough data for the Ionic to set the default. One of the nice features I like about ABRP is you can tweak the settings based on your personal use. For example, on the route planning above, the default efficiency For my car it’s 247 wH/mile based on 65 mph. I bump mine up a bit as I rarely drive that slow. For the bolt, it’s 284 wH/mile.
After seeing all the charging stops for the SR+, I ran the E tron which I believe has a flatter charging curve to see if those many stops hurts or helps and the E tron took 7 hours and 17 minutes and 14 stops. The consumption was 386 wH/mile which is culled from users driving E trons that are connected. When you look closely though at the itinerary, it makes sense as there’s a lot more inefficiencies in the locations of the public chargers. I think the first stop was for 7 minutes only 32 miles in.
So to be safe and fair, I would rather use a sampling of broad data than data points of one.

 

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My understanding is that ABRP downloads efficiency data which are used to determine wH/mile per model. They recently got enough data for the Ionic to set the default. One of the nice features I like about ABRP is you can tweak the settings based on your personal use. For example, on the route planning above, the default efficiency For my car it’s 247 wH/mile based on 65 mph. I bump mine up a bit as I rarely drive that slow. For the bolt, it’s 284 wH/mile.
After seeing all the charging stops for the SR+, I ran the E tron which I believe has a flatter charging curve to see if those many stops hurts or helps and the E tron took 7 hours and 17 minutes and 14 stops. The consumption was 386 wH/mile which is culled from users driving E trons that are connected. When you look closely though at the itinerary, it makes sense as there’s a lot more inefficiencies in the locations of the public chargers. I think the first stop was for 7 minutes only 32 miles in.
So to be safe and fair, I would rather use a sampling of broad data than data points of one.

ABPR to use my car data needs me to pay them an annual fee to be able to hook a Bluetooth dongle to my ODB2. Since the beginning, they always used the 184 wH/km even though NewsCoulomb (Eric) was sending them a lot of Data if I am not mistaken. And I am sure Eric and everyone else gets more like 3.8 m/kWh than 3.3 m/kWh at 68 mph (even better than that). So yeah... I don’t know how they acquire the info for the Bolt EV. Being based in Europe and not many Ampera-E around... I doubt they even tested more than maybe their test car.
 

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My understanding is that ABRP downloads efficiency data which are used to determine wH/mile per model. They recently got enough data for the Ionic to set the default. One of the nice features I like about ABRP is you can tweak the settings based on your personal use. For example, on the route planning above, the default efficiency For my car it’s 247 wH/mile based on 65 mph. I bump mine up a bit as I rarely drive that slow. For the bolt, it’s 284 wH/mile.
After seeing all the charging stops for the SR+, I ran the E tron which I believe has a flatter charging curve to see if those many stops hurts or helps and the E tron took 7 hours and 17 minutes and 14 stops. The consumption was 386 wH/mile which is culled from users driving E trons that are connected. When you look closely though at the itinerary, it makes sense as there’s a lot more inefficiencies in the locations of the public chargers. I think the first stop was for 7 minutes only 32 miles in.
So to be safe and fair, I would rather use a sampling of broad data than data points of one.

The consumption estimate is based on the speed they have assumed, so don't change the watt hours per mile (or miles per kWh) or it will through everything out of wack. In your case since you drive fast you can adjust the reference speed (110% if you drive 10% over the speed limit etc) and then all of it's calculations for driving time and consumption will be accurate. If on the other hand you drive slow to conserve power, in ABRP you can adjust your max speed and it will use that as your max speed regardless of the speed limit.

Keith
 

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ABPR to use my car data needs me to pay them an annual fee to be able to hook a Bluetooth dongle to my ODB2. Since the beginning, they always used the 184 wH/km even though NewsCoulomb (Eric) was sending them a lot of Data if I am not mistaken. And I am sure Eric and everyone else gets more like 3.8 m/kWh than 3.3 m/kWh at 68 mph (even better than that). So yeah... I don’t know how they acquire the info for the Bolt EV.
Eric has light weight aero wheels. He says they don't have much effect, but he has always gotten better miles per kwh than I get for a given speed. I get around 3.3 miles per kwh at 70 mph...

Keith
 

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The consumption estimate is based on the speed they have assumed, so don't change the watt hours per mile (or miles per kWh) or it will through everything out of wack. In your case since you drive fast you can adjust the reference speed (110% if you drive 10% over the speed limit etc) and then all of it's calculations for driving time and consumption will be accurate. If on the other hand you drive slow to conserve power, in ABRP you can adjust your max speed and it will use that as your max speed regardless of the speed limit.

Keith
I am not sure this is the right approach. The consumption will be anyway skewed so... adding a faster speed will only make things worse and push the driver to stop when in RL he doesn’t need.
 

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Eric has light weight aero wheels. He says they don't have much effect, but he has always gotten better miles per kwh than I get for a given speed. I get around 3.3 miles per kwh at 70 mph...

Keith
I have an LT as Eric with the OEM tires and get 16.3 kWh/100 km = 3.8 miles/kWh in my runs at 110 km/h = 68 mph. I remember Eric saying also that the LT might be more efficient than a Premium for whatever reasons... maybe that would be the difference ? 🤔

Anyway, I use more the MyChevrolet app for my long trips and it is more accurate than ABRP using the info of my car, from my observations.
 

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ABPR to use my car data needs me to pay them an annual fee to be able to hook a Bluetooth dongle to my ODB2. Since the beginning, they always used the 184 wH/km even though NewsCoulomb (Eric) was sending them a lot of Data if I am not mistaken. And I am sure Eric and everyone else gets more like 3.8 m/kWh than 3.3 m/kWh at 68 mph (even better than that). So yeah... I don’t know how they acquire the info for the Bolt EV. Being based in Europe and not many Ampera-E around... I doubt they even tested more than maybe their test car.
I wasn't aware the Bolt has to pay to connect. My Tesla is free and I can upload trips in the Nav. That may be due to wifi connectivity. Evidently they get enough data from Bolts to feel comfortable with using the averages.
But I was just showing how inadequate and poorly planned the public fast charging network still is compared to the Supercharger network. When you have half a dozen separate companies trying to commercialize their investment, their best interest may not align with the end user. I wouldn't be surprised if you get a street corner with as many public chargers as there are Starbucks like gas stations used to do. Then when you get 200 miles out of town and you really need one, there's none to be found. Just look at the E-trons itinerary, it's pathetic that a car with a 25% bigger battery takes 25% longer to charge on a 2 day trip than the SR+ at half the price.
Here's a recent video of a guy that's crisscrossing america in his Model 3 Performance with a Yakima roof rack. He uses a public charger one time. He just backs up, pushes the button and plugs in.
He doesn't have to stand on one foot, need 3 hands, call the mother ship, or pray to Thor, God of Lightning. It just works. And note that Plug share is not real time data whereas the Tesla Navigation is. It shows superchargers that are up and running the Plug share doesn't show.

 

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Yes, if buying from Tesla. If you buy a Model 3 without Auto Pilot in a private party sale, I"m thinking you'd have to pay the 3k it cost to add it back, which I think was the price for the option. A lot changed over the years. From what I can tell, if the car was purchased with FSD then FSD remains. If the car came with EAP then EAP is dropped and basic Auto Pilot is included in its place. Not everyone who bought a 2017/2018 car necessarily got it with AP. So it's kind of nice that Tesla now includes it. But it's not cool that if the person bought EAP (Enhanced Auto Pilot) they then remove it. But honestly, FSD is only a theory. AP works well on the highway and is a good solution to relieve the burden of commuting. So I think adding AP to those cars without it is a nice perk.

Anyway, as one last bit of advice, if shopping for a used 3 you have to check inventory once or twice a day. It can change a lot. Cars are sold and added quite often. I would only consider low mileage 10-15k mile cars as those were most likely treated well. Only consider ones with good, high quality photos--most cars have good photos. Some cars have interiors that look as if pigs lived in them. I just don't get that. Others are pristine. Be patient. There really are unicorns out there. I"m still shocked that my car does not have a single chip or scratch on the paint.
Everyone that bought FSD should get a refund. I have a hard time feeling badly for them though, because everyone knows you don't pay for something that doesn't exist yet.

I guess I don't know the difference between AP and EAP.

I specifically look for the worst condition cars because I want to pay less, and not caring about aesthetics is one way to pay less. That, and it hurts less when scratches and wear occurs since it was never pristine in the first place.
 

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I wasn't aware the Bolt has to pay to connect. My Tesla is free and I can upload trips in the Nav. That may be due to wifi connectivity. Evidently they get enough data from Bolts to feel comfortable with using the averages.
But I was just showing how inadequate and poorly planned the public fast charging network still is compared to the Supercharger network. When you have half a dozen separate companies trying to commercialize their investment, their best interest may not align with the end user. I wouldn't be surprised if you get a street corner with as many public chargers as there are Starbucks like gas stations used to do. Then when you get 200 miles out of town and you really need one, there's none to be found. Just look at the E-trons itinerary, it's pathetic that a car with a 25% bigger battery takes 25% longer to charge on a 2 day trip than the SR+ at half the price.
Here's a recent video of a guy that's crisscrossing america in his Model 3 Performance with a Yakima roof rack. He uses a public charger one time. He just backs up, pushes the button and plugs in.
He doesn't have to stand on one foot, need 3 hands, call the mother ship, or pray to Thor, God of Lightning. It just works. And note that Plug share is not real time data whereas the Tesla Navigation is. It shows superchargers that are up and running the Plug share doesn't show.

They definitely are. But the same goes for Tesla Superchargers... here up North, there are still blank spots.
 

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There is no fee to submit data to ABRP, but they don't have access to the OnStar data. Individual owners have to log the data and send it to them. According to ABRP, I was the primary source for their Bolt EV consumption data for 65 mph and faster driving. Despite a majority of those logs being from a particularly windy winter, they still ended up calculating >3.8 mi/kWh at 65 mph. How they went from that to some ridiculous number like 3.4 or 3.5 mi/kWh at 65 mph is beyond me. The charging speed is another issue entirely. Overall, I think it's good that they are conservative, but they went a little too far. As far as I can tell, their numbers for other models are far more accurate.

Also, I'm sure the lighter Cruze ECO wheels provide some benefit when it comes to elevation changes and curvy roads, but overall, the difference in freeway speed driving has been small enough that I haven't been able to measure it. I still maintain that there is an efficiency difference between the LT and Premier (how could their not be with the added the weight, roof rails, amp & subwoofer, etc.?), but according to ABRP, there isn't one that they've noticed in their logs.
 

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They definitely are. But the same goes for Tesla Superchargers... here up North, there are still blank spots.
I mentioned that earlier that the supercharger network is just now working on getting their Trans-Canadian network open. Some of the delay was gearing up the V3 chargers. Now that they are being cranked out, that build-out should go fairly quickly.

"At present, the regular long distance (CCS and CHAdeMO) fast charging network in North America is incredibly fragmented, with hundreds of different providers that offer the same experience for a varying fees. Some of these providers have integrated their services and offer roaming agreements that allow you to use a single account to access different types of chargers. When you compare service providers, the positioning of chargers is inconsistent and infrequent. It is getting better with time however needs a more coordinated approach. The overall user experience of this system is clunky and frustrating for many users.

While Tesla vehicles boast exceptional battery range, the overall user experience is augmented by the extensive Tesla Charging network. We think that the Tesla Charging network alone is the real key to this company’s long term market success."

 

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I own my 2017 Bolt (well making payments but i didn't lease (i think leases are one of the worst things someone can do with a car but thats another discussion)). In a couple of years i am thinking of getting an EV thats bigger than the Bolt. The Model Y is on the list but i am concerned about it but not about fit and finish which can be fixed, i'm having a hard time with a Tesla for which might be considered dumb reasons but they are 3. 1. No heated steering wheel, seems like that should be a standard on EVs. 2. No cooled seats. I know our Bolts don't have that but my wife's Kia Niro PHEV has them and it is really nice to not have swamp ass on a long trip. Seems weird that Teslas don't have this. 3. No Apple CarPlay. This one is the least important but i'd still miss it. I know those things seem pretty small but they really are building in my mind as deal breakers.

I'm still waiting on more info on some more coming up like the ID4 from VW, the Mach E which we do know a bunch about. The Bolt EUV which seems compelling but if it has the same battery as the regular Bolt seems like there would be a range hit since its bigger but again we don't know yet. Also the ID Buzz which seems like it would be super cool but it'll probably expensive and since its a box not very aerodynamic. The Nissan Arya seems cool but from what i read the cargo space is less than the current Bolt seems weird since its bigger. Rivian would be cool too but way too pricey and it won't fit in my garage (plus it seems like vaporware at this point who knows). CyberTruck, again super cool but i can't fit it in my garage its probably 2 feet too long to close the door.

Maybe i'm crazy who knows, I do know that i'll never buy another ICE car ever. I just need something that is like 10% bigger than the Bolt.
I’m looking at the Model Y too. Am not paying much attention to the announcements of other EV’s because these will be a long time coming. The Model Y is being produced now. Concerning the three objections to the Y, I am inclined to agree on all three counts; for a “luxury” vehicle, Model Y lacks a lot of standard luxury features. But guess it won’t really matter that much after a few weeks. Enjoyed reading your comments!
 
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