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I'm sure this is the case. It's very, very rare to find a North American 120V outlet that can deliver more than 15A.
I disagree. It is not very, very rare to find a 20A 120V outlet in North America. Often when I am travelling, I ask the hotel manager for permission to use outdoor outlets to charge my car overnight. They normally don't mind at all. And a good number of the outlets I find are 20A. This is a prime example of where the boost in charging speed would actually make a noticeable difference.

I have also seen them in garages, where people park and charge their EVs.

29089


For those not familiar, 20A outlets have the sideways T on one side (like above). If you start looking for them, you'll see that they aren't so very, very rare.
 

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In addition to that, for a long time, RV parks and electrified campgrounds were the best places for an EV owner on a long trip to get a charge.

Things have improved as DCFS rolls out, but back when Chevy made this decision in 2017, topping off at a campsite was still a widely known use case.

While 14-50 outlets are pretty common, there are LOTS of situations where the 14-50 sites are all booked up and you can only get a campsite with 30A service - which happens to also mean 120v.

Probably the best example of a "long roadtrip" report of a Bolt owner going to Canada had at least two examples where being able to charge at 24A from a TT-30 would've made a massive difference. (Also, it would be better if it were easier to find TT-30 adapters usable for EVs - RV TT-30 to 14-50 adapters won't work.)

(Side note: I wish Chevy had a better solution for "camping mode" than putting the vehicle in neutral and engaging the parking brake. Having the AC running while getting power from a TT-30 would be great at a campsite with one of those SUV tents.)
 

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Discussion Starter #24
For those not familiar, 20A outlets have the sideways T on one side (like above). If you start looking for them, you'll see that they aren't so very, very rare.
That's been my experience too - once you look, suddenly there seem to be quite a few of them.

If TT-30s were more common, it might be worth looking into a step-up transformer. I'm a bit skeptical of some of the stuff one finds on Amazon, but for $80, it looks like one can get a 110-220V transformer capable of 3kW output.
 

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That's been my experience too - once you look, suddenly there seem to be quite a few of them.

If TT-30s were more common, it might be worth looking into a step-up transformer. I'm a bit skeptical of some of the stuff one finds on Amazon, but for $80, it looks like one can get a 110-220V transformer capable of 3kW output.
For transformers like that, you want a pretty serious amount of over-rating of the equipment - even more than the 80% rule for connectors. I'd feel nervous even with a 5 kW unit given how bad their reviews are... And those are heavy. :(
 

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"For transformers like that, you want a pretty serious amount of over-rating of the equipment - even more than the 80% rule for connectors. I'd feel nervous even with a 5 kW unit given how bad their reviews are... And those are heavy. :( "
In another thread it was determined that a transformer capable of converting the output of a TT-30 to 240V/15A would weigh around 60 pounds!
 

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I'm sure this is the case. It's very, very rare to find a North American 120V outlet that can deliver more than 15A.
No, it's not in the USA. (Maybe in Canada?)

20A / 120V circuits are common in ALL residential dwellings if built to any recent NEC standard.
Your kitchen appliance circuits, bathroom receptacle, washing machine, DW/disposal, refrigerator circuits are all 20A circuits. I've seen many older homes where all the 120V circuits are 20A.

The style of receptacle has nothing to do with it being a 15 or 20A circuit. The standard duplex receptacle that we are all familiar with (without the "sideways T") are perfectly capable, and rated, to carry 20A.

The receptacles with the "sideways T" are typically only used on a dedicated 20A circuit for a specific appliance, such as a refrigerator. Even then, they are typically only installed to signify the fact that IT IS a dedicated circuit, not because it is required.

In almost 20 years of doing residential electric, I've seen a cord end (with the one blade "sideways T" that would not fit in a standard receptacle) for a dedicated 20A appliance maybe a half dozen times. Those were mostly shop equipment like compressors. Have you ever seen a refrigerator or blender with a sideways T plug on the end??

The amount of current that a circuit is capable of supporting is mainly based on wire size and the over-current device. The appearance of the receptacle has nothing to do with it.
 

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The amount of current that a circuit is capable of supporting is mainly based on wire size and the over-current device. The appearance of the receptacle has nothing to do with it.
How risky is it to pull 16A continuously through a 5-15 receptacle? While the circuit may have a 20 amp breaker and 12 gauge wire which easily supports 20A, would not the receptacle be the weak link in the system?

ga2500ev
 

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How risky is it to pull 16A continuously through a 5-15 receptacle? While the circuit may have a 20 amp breaker and 12 gauge wire which easily supports 20A, would not the receptacle be the weak link in the system?

ga2500ev
Really, the weak link in any "plug in" scenario is the mating of the plug blades into the receptacle itself. I've seen plenty of receptacles that get loose enough that the plug barely stays in. In that case, you can get arcing, which tends to start bad things happening.

A receptacle in good condition from a reputable manufacturer, wouldn't have any issue with it.

Of course, you'd want to be sure there weren't other loads on that circuit, lest you pop the breaker.
 

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How risky is it to pull 16A continuously through a 5-15 receptacle? While the circuit may have a 20 amp breaker and 12 gauge wire which easily supports 20A, would not the receptacle be the weak link in the system?

ga2500ev
If the circuit was wired for 20A, it should have a 20A receptacle.
 

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If the circuit was wired for 20A, it should have a 20A receptacle.
Not true. A 20A receptacle would have to be installed only if there is a single receptacle on the circuit. For example if there were a dedicated dishwasher circuit that ended in a receptacle with nothing else wired to it then it must have a 5-20R. However, if there are multiple receptacles on the circuit, those receptacles can be either 15A or 20A. Even a standard dual 5-15R is considered multiple receptacles by code.

All of my house 120V circuits have 20A breaker. And all of them have 5-15R wired to them. Of course I haven't tried to pull 16A through any of those recepticles for more than 3 hours at a time. I was just wondering how much of a risk would it be to do so.

ga2500ev
 

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Not true. A 20A receptacle would have to be installed only if there is a single receptacle on the circuit. For example if there were a dedicated dishwasher circuit that ended in a receptacle with nothing else wired to it then it must have a 5-20R. However, if there are multiple receptacles on the circuit, those receptacles can be either 15A or 20A. Even a standard dual 5-15R is considered multiple receptacles by code.

All of my house 120V circuits have 20A breaker. And all of them have 5-15R wired to them. Of course I haven't tried to pull 16A through any of those recepticles for more than 3 hours at a time. I was just wondering how much of a risk would it be to do so.

ga2500ev
I stand corrected, even though that offends my sensibilities. The work I did as an industrial electrician was usually done to a higher standard than the NEC (corporate had their own code).
 

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Not true. A 20A receptacle would have to be installed only if there is a single receptacle on the circuit. For example if there were a dedicated dishwasher circuit that ended in a receptacle with nothing else wired to it then it must have a 5-20R. However, if there are multiple receptacles on the circuit, those receptacles can be either 15A or 20A. Even a standard dual 5-15R is considered multiple receptacles by code.

All of my house 120V circuits have 20A breaker. And all of them have 5-15R wired to them. Of course I haven't tried to pull 16A through any of those recepticles for more than 3 hours at a time. I was just wondering how much of a risk would it be to do so.

ga2500ev
^^^ Exactly!

The manufacturers don't really advertise it, but if you dig through the literature, they will say that the 15A receptacles are acceptable on a 20A circuit. And, I've never known of an inspector to fail 15A receptacles on 20A non- dedicated circuits.

Now that said, it's a bit of a trick question because any appliance UL listed for 16A should have a 5-20 plug end, thus requiring a 5-20 receptacle. But ga2500ev, if you've got a 16A device that plugs into a 5-15 receptacle (on a 20A circuit)...go for it!
 

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I stand corrected, even though that offends my sensibilities. The work I did as an industrial electrician was usually done to a higher standard than the NEC (corporate had their own code).
Very true. Commercial / industrial work has way tighter standards than residential.
NEC is a MINIMUM standard. And unfortunately, home builders only do the minimum.
 

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Not true. A 20A receptacle would have to be installed only if there is a single receptacle on the circuit. For example if there were a dedicated dishwasher circuit that ended in a receptacle with nothing else wired to it then it must have a 5-20R. However, if there are multiple receptacles on the circuit, those receptacles can be either 15A or 20A. Even a standard dual 5-15R is considered multiple receptacles by code.

All of my house 120V circuits have 20A breaker. And all of them have 5-15R wired to them. Of course I haven't tried to pull 16A through any of those recepticles for more than 3 hours at a time. I was just wondering how much of a risk would it be to do so.

ga2500ev
Hey, and that's for modern specs. My house was built in 1963, and the electrical was absolute sh1t when I moved in. All of the ceiling lights on a single 10A circuit with the living room wall plugs as well. I have pulled new wire and installed a new breaker every time I have changed anything (such as installing grounded plugs in the kitchen). Now that I think about it, I never upgraded the garage electrical (I am running the EVSE off the original 30A 240V dryer plug, which is on its own, separate circuit).
 

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Hey, and that's for modern specs. My house was built in 1963, and the electrical was absolute sh1t when I moved in. All of the ceiling lights on a single 10A circuit with the living room wall plugs as well. I have pulled new wire and installed a new breaker every time I have changed anything (such as installing grounded plugs in the kitchen). Now that I think about it, I never upgraded the garage electrical (I am running the EVSE off the original 30A 240V dryer plug, which is on its own, separate circuit).
Yup. During a remodel, we opened up some walls, and what I found with the electrical system scared the [email protected] out of me. 50 years of "fixes" by "hanymen". I, with a licensed electricians help and oversight, pulled everything out, replaced all fixtures with commercial grade, and all wiring with #12AWG. Put in a new 200A panel at the same time. We now meet all standards for new construction. Radical and pricey, but I sleep like a baby, now.
 

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Yeah, I use hospital-grade plugs in areas that have a lot of plug/unplug cycles (the kitchen!) and commercial grade everywhere else, whenever I change something, I upgrade it. Sure it's more expensive, but how much is your life worth? Or all the memories stored in boxes in your house? I spend more in heating in one month in the winter than I have upgrading the electrical sockets in my house over the past 25 years.
 

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Yup. During a remodel, we opened up some walls, and what I found with the electrical system scared the [email protected] out of me. 50 years of "fixes" by "hanymen". I, with a licensed electricians help and oversight, pulled everything out, replaced all fixtures with commercial grade, and all wiring with #12AWG. Put in a new 200A panel at the same time. We now meet all standards for new construction. Radical and pricey, but I sleep like a baby, now.
I can sympathize. Every "upgrade" that was done to my home since it was built in 1957 was done with extension cords. Typically 18-20 AWG, too. Some were buried in walls. The scariest was an extension cord which was connected to the old wire with wire nuts and some electrical tape, but no box. That rat-nest connection was then buried in the attic insulation. That the house still stands is a small miracle.
 

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I can sympathize. Every "upgrade" that was done to my home since it was built in 1957 was done with extension cords. Typically 18-20 AWG, too. Some were buried in walls. The scariest was an extension cord which was connected to the old wire with wire nuts and some electrical tape, but no box. That rat-nest connection was then buried in the attic insulation. That the house still stands is a small miracle.
That's the stuff of nightmares.

During my remodel, as we removed the old e-system, it was a running joke to shout across the house "Hey, you gotta see THIS one!" as we came across sketchy wiring. We lost track of how many scorch marks were in j-boxes. The "winner" was the re-routing of part of the the unused electric dryer's 30A circuit to use it for a microwave oven. The "handyman" pulled apart the conduit and swung one leg of the 240V over to the microwave. What he didn't pay attention to was that the washer and dryer circuit ALSO derived its ground connection through the 30A circuit's conduit. Yup...appliances with both electrical power and water present had no ground connections to them...for years.
 

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If I often used TT-30 plugs, I'd maybe consider something like this 10kW portable CCS charger: 10kw CCS Combo Portable Charger - EV Fast Charger - ShenZhen SETEC Power Co., Ltd.

In theory, you can use this to take in [email protected] and then "DCFC" with that. Here's a demo of this thing (turn on auto-translate subtitles from German->English):

It looks like they're in the ballpark of a few thousand dollars, but could also be handy if you want to hack up a connection from a Tesla HPWC over DCFC, though might be worth getting the 20kW one if you're going to do that on an 80A one, which may or may not be possible with existing adapters.
 
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