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Used bolts in mass storage

9211 Views 136 Replies 39 Participants Last post by jefro, 1 mo ago

Greenfan

Discussion Starter · 3 mo ago

My photos doesn't capture the amount of bolts stored here near me in Antioch calif. I'll estimate 8k after seeing 17 k German diesels stored here during the VW diesel scandal.The first photo was take about a month ago ,maybe 1 k then.Been seeing truck loads of bolts headed this way lately on the highways. I heard a radio news brief (KCBS am740)about a CAN proposal to give $9500 discounts towards a used bolt inorder to get old polluting autos off the road here in central calif said to be in use by low income residents (farm workers) . I'd like to learn more about this if you can direct me to more info if appreciate it.

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enslay

· #22 · 3 mo ago

SpicyBolt said:
Here is the blue sticker on the Bolt that GM bought back from us.
View attachment 53999

I'm sad to see that on a car that is almost certainly perfectly fine... but out of abundance of caution, was limited to 80% or other restrictions. Hopefully someone will still want it and love it in the future.

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enslay

· #55 · 2 mo ago

I wouldn't give time frames like "10 years" since this industry is moving ridiculously fast. If you thought the LFP chemistry was "new", VW and car companies in China are starting to deploy sodium ion chemistries in cars already! And I only heard about speculation about sodium ion within the past year!

So we probably won't see solid EV trucks for some time... but I'm afraid to put a number on that!

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enslay

· #97 · 2 mo ago

Greenfan said:
Your probably right at this time, hopefully fire fighting technology and high finance will catch-up with this situation soon enough to find a home for these orphaned bolts.

Newer, safer, battery technology will likely replace the current chemistries... Ford is already building an LFP battery factory in Michigan. LFP batteries are cheaper to make and a lot less likely to catch fire! Though they are less energy dense than the lithium ion batteries we currently use. There's also Sodium Ion batteries which have the potential to replace all batteries! They're even cheaper to make than lead acid batteries with comparable density to lithium ion! Remains to be seen how they perform in practice... and they are now being used in actual cars in China (with VW in the loop). They're also supposedly less likely to catch fire too. I'm hoping Sodium Ion batteries are successful.

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enslay

· #99 · 2 mo ago

Sean Nelson said:
I have no idea what form the sodium is in these batteries, but my immediate thought is that you'd better not get the cells in those batteries get wet...

And tell me, what is your immediate thought about eating table salt? Will it corrode your tongue and/or burst into flames because it has sodium in it? Do you worry about your Bolt's batteries producing flammable gases (hydrogen) when exposed to water? Apparently that's what happens when you dunk lithium metal into water (along with a seemingly violent reaction). You can watch that reaction on YouTube too.

I mean, a very brief search of sodium ion batteries in wikipedia will produce a comparison table with a safety column:

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en.wikipedia.org

Ironically, there is an aqueous version of sodium ion batteries and they're stated to be the safest of that kind of battery.

Why would anyone want sodium ion batteries to succeed? Because they're extremely inexpensive to produce and everyone can make them with resources that are significantly more abundant than those used in lithium ion batteries. Oh, and they're even safer than already-safe lithium ion batteries!

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enslay

· #101 · 2 mo ago

Sean Nelson said:
Yep, good point!

But, would that actually happen to Bolt's batteries? Is there pure lithium metal in there to react that way to water? There's also NMC in there somehow.

I guess if water was leaking into a Lithium Ion battery, that probably means you have bigger problems.

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