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I get it Pod. I really do. You hate Trump and will do everything possible to harm him and his followers. I don't intend that in a bad, or condemning way, but trying to acknowledge your point of view. I don't like Trump for who he is and some of the things he's done, but I try to keep it real and not fully embrace one side while dismissing the other, when both are clearly lying and misleading, repeatedly.

That's a lot of wild "what if's". Nearly all of them would have resulted in nearly universal condemnation and total failure of the perpetrators goals. The "inflamed riots and Trump declaring martial law" is just another straw-man. But it appeals to peoples fear (see video posted by GJETSON above).

BTW, not sure I believe him but, Scary Zip-Tie Guy just found the zip ties. The Air Force Academy graduate claimed to have found the flex cuffs he was carrying on the floor. “I wish I had not picked those up,” he said. “My thought process there was I would pick them up and give them to an officer when I see one.”
 

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Again... media bubble. Can you give a realistic example of how this event could have been a "seizure of of power from a government"? BTW, "seizure of power", in the context of a coup, means taking complete control, not exerting some political pressure. I think it's obvious that it is just media-hyped sensationalism.
I am about to link here a video from MSNBC to address your point, and the irony of that isn't lost on me. Please ignore any opinion you think might be biased and just watch the footage from inside the Capitol during the breach. A lot of it i hadn't seen before, and it was hard for me to watch. Sure, a lot of them were probably harmless protestors but there were reportedly some who were saying they were going to kidnap and/or hang Pence to stop the process, thus retaining control (temporarily) for Trump.

When you watch these videos, which I found hard to watch, keep in mind that this is not a mcdonald's or some museum or even just a government building, this is the US Capitol building during a joint session, where ALL our elected representatives from all 50 states were working at the time.

Must-see new video shows Capitol riot was way worse than we thought
 

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Does that guy always talk like Captain Kirk?

Ask yourself this. If some left-wing politician riled up a BLM/Antifa crowd and they broke into the Capitol building, doing exactly the same, do you honestly believe there would be the same breathless condemnation? I think it's completely safe to say that the answer is no. If that were true, they would have already been doing this for other protests. Again, I'm tired of repeating this.. I am NOT comparing the two events, I'm comparing the way they are covered in the media to get you to ignore some events and be outraged by others. Both sides are clearly do this, playing on the same fear that Trump does.
 

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DC, and the congress, are not unused to large protests. The capital police force has over 2000 officers. Even though, federal, state and local officials have known for weeks, that there would be possibly violent protests at the capital, there were only about 500 officers called in to guard the capital. Many congress people had told their staff members to stay home that day, because they were expecting a violent protest. Normally, in such a situation, there would be helicopters flying around observing, and other police, and military on standby in such a situation, but not his time.

If we make it through inauguration day without more violent protests, as these folks have planned for at state capitals, and DC a few days before then, there will be months, perhaps years, of investigation. There will be conspiracy theories real and imagined that will never go away. I expect at least one new flag commemorating this event to be hanging from my neighbors multiple flag poles.
 

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That would be true if I said "Yes, but I'm following up with something that actually says no". I said yes, in agreement, and then pointed to a similar example on the other side.

I think everyone needs to make an effort to take into consideration what others are saying instead of "I disagree with this person so I have to disagree with every last word they say". Again, that is what got us to where we are.
"Yes, but..." can be, as you state, a comment that is the opposite of the point being made. It can also be a deflection by misdirection. What does the hypothesis of corporate enslavement have to do with Sean Nelsons observation that "too many on the the right are quite literally living in an alternate reality where voter fraud is rampant and Biden is coming for their children." ??

The bellwether of history will, in FACT, demonstrate that the far right has been operating in a fact-free zone for a long time, and the festering pus of its alternate reality came oozing out inside the Capitol building.
 

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Ask yourself this. If some left-wing politician riled up a BLM/Antifa crowd and they broke into the Capitol building, doing exactly the same, do you honestly believe there would be the same breathless condemnation?
Do you really believe they would have gotten within a block of the capital building? Do you happen to recall how dangerous leftist protestors were treated under Barack Obama?



 

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Does that guy always talk like Captain Kirk?

Ask yourself this. If some left-wing politician riled up a BLM/Antifa crowd and they broke into the Capitol building, doing exactly the same, do you honestly believe there would be the same breathless condemnation? I think it's completely safe to say that the answer is no. If that were true, they would have already been doing this for other protests. Again, I'm tired of repeating this.. I am NOT comparing the two events, I'm comparing the way they are covered in the media to get you to ignore some events and be outraged by others. Both sides are clearly do this, playing on the same fear that Trump does.
Forget all the stuff the commentator said. That's not why I posted the video.

I could care less about what ifs and how abouts. I posted it because it shows what was really happening inside the Capitol building, which I hadn't seen before, and helps to show the true seriousness of the event, IMO.
 

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I get it Pod. I really do. You hate Trump and will do everything possible to harm him and his followers. I don't intend that in a bad, or condemning way, but trying to acknowledge your point of view. I don't like Trump for who he is and some of the things he's done, but I try to keep it real and not fully embrace one side while dismissing the other, when both are clearly lying and misleading, repeatedly.

That's a lot of wild "what if's". Nearly all of them would have resulted in nearly universal condemnation and total failure of the perpetrators goals. The "inflamed riots and Trump declaring martial law" is just another straw-man. But it appeals to peoples fear (see video posted by GJETSON above).

BTW, not sure I believe him but, Scary Zip-Tie Guy just found the zip ties. The Air Force Academy graduate claimed to have found the flex cuffs he was carrying on the floor. “I wish I had not picked those up,” he said. “My thought process there was I would pick them up and give them to an officer when I see one.”
It's absurd to say I'm trying to harm anyone. If I were, "everything possible" wouldn't be typing my thoughts on a Chevy Bolt forum. I did vote so there's that.

You've been on this both sides/media kick since the beginning of this thread. This isn't about the media. If someone vandalizes a store front for whatever reason, they should face the consequences. The same is true for someone breaking into the Capitol in an attempt to overturn a free and fair election. The punishment should fit the crime whether it's vandalism or insurrection. If a leader and his sycophants incite a crowd to commit a crime, they should face the consequences. Tell me how I'm wrong.

As far as the retired lieutenant colonel, I hope he has proof to back up his claims. He's already guilty of crimes. It would be a shame if he has to take the fall for someone else.
 

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Discussion Starter #209
I get it Pod. I really do. You hate Trump and will do everything possible to harm him and his followers. I don't intend that in a bad, or condemning way, but trying to acknowledge your point of view. I don't like Trump for who he is and some of the things he's done, but I try to keep it real and not fully embrace one side while dismissing the other, when both are clearly lying and misleading, repeatedly.

That's a lot of wild "what if's". Nearly all of them would have resulted in nearly universal condemnation and total failure of the perpetrators goals. The "inflamed riots and Trump declaring martial law" is just another straw-man. But it appeals to peoples fear (see video posted by GJETSON above).

BTW, not sure I believe him but, Scary Zip-Tie Guy just found the zip ties. The Air Force Academy graduate claimed to have found the flex cuffs he was carrying on the floor. “I wish I had not picked those up,” he said. “My thought process there was I would pick them up and give them to an officer when I see one.”
Those "what if's" are exactly what is conversation worthy in many professional circles right now. Security companies are built on those what if's.

"Officer, I just found these drugs and cash and stolen car!"
 

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What does the hypothesis of corporate enslavement have to do with Sean Nelsons observation that "too many on the the right are quite literally living in an alternate reality where voter fraud is rampant and Biden is coming for their children." ??
It was a reference to something said by GJETSON, used to demonstrate that there are people on both sides believing in things outside of what most would consider "reality". One of those alternate realities is created by the media, on both sides. One clue that you're living in one of these alternative realities is that everything your sides does is good and everything the other sides does is bad. If you see things that way, your reality is skewed.

Do you really believe they would have gotten within a block of the capital building?
Didn't you put forth the idea that they were allowed to do it intentionally?

Forget all the stuff the commentator said. That's not why I posted the video.

I could care less about what ifs and how abouts. I posted it because it shows what was really happening inside the Capitol building, which I hadn't seen before, and helps to show the true seriousness of the event, IMO.
Okay. Sorry for going off on that. It was hard to focus on the events with the all that talking for the sake of working people up and causing fear. I think it's been misconstrued that I think the event was somehow not serious. I mean... people were killed. How can that not be serious. I just don't think it's not serious in a "we almost lost our democracy" kind of way. Realistically, if 1,000 armed and trained troops took over the capital it would only be a temporary thing until the military cleared them out, so if that's not a serious threat to our democracy, how could this be?

It's absurd to say I'm trying to harm anyone. If I were, "everything possible" wouldn't be typing my thoughts on a Chevy Bolt forum. I did vote so there's that.
Well, I suppose I'm guilty of some hyperbole there. My apologies.

You've been on this both sides/media kick since the beginning of this thread. This isn't about the media. If someone vandalizes a store front for whatever reason, they should face the consequences. The same is true for someone breaking into the Capitol in an attempt to overturn a free and fair election. The punishment should fit the crime whether it's vandalism or insurrection. If a leader and his sycophants incite a crowd to commit a crime, they should face the consequences. Tell me how I'm wrong.
That looks pretty accurate so I'm not sure why I would tell you you're wrong. Although the "attempt to overturn" is a bit over-stated. If someone actually thought they could successfully overturn the election by breaking into the building they're an idiot.

The media thing is an expansion on the initial topic, initially meant to give some perspective and present an alternative to joining the frenzy pushed by the media.
 

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It was a reference to something said by GJETSON, used to demonstrate that there are people on both sides believing in things outside of what most would consider "reality".

Didn't you put forth the idea that they were allowed to do it intentionally?
I didn't invent the terms wage slave, sweet shop, child labor, or union busting.

I showed you videos of how a "socialist, Muslim, Kenyan" administration dealt with leftist protesters. I leave it to your laser-like mind to figure out how it would have gone down had this latest group had been leftists.
 

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Discussion Starter #212
Y'all's getting too esoteric. What about the costumes? Biggest cosplay of the year.
 

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Here's an interesting article, “What happened?”, which I think probably correctly nails what Trump and his enablers were trying to do—definitely worth a read. This was a last ditch attempt to overturn the election. In essence they were trying to create chaos to perpetuate a coup, but given who these people are, they did not see how it could all go wrong for them.

BTW, folks, I think the best thing you can do with folks like @MisterJJ is to treat him as you would other trolls, don't feed him with replies. He's always going to be coming right back with his false equivalencies, whataboutism, etc. I know it's tempting to try, believe me I've been sucked into these conversations myself, but if you sit back and watch, you see the circle go around and around. That's because it's not about coming to an understanding, it's about him coming up with a comeback. That's why his remarks are filled with put-downs, straw men, and half truths. So my advice is, don't waste your time.

Talking of unreachable people, here's another article to read, “‘The storm is here’: Ashli Babbitt’s journey from capital ‘guardian’ to invader”. All a bit sad.

Incidentally, @MisterJJ, I'm sure you'll disagree with what I've said, and that's fine, absolutely expected. In your own mind feel free to paint an unflattering picture and put me down in all the usual ways. But there's no need to come up with a comeback for this message. Or at least give it a few days. It'd mean much more to have someone other than you call me out, right?
 

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Injustice is clearly subjective, based on a point of view.
There may be valid disagreements about a lot of things perceived by some as injustice. But there should, IMHO, be respect for the democratic process of electing your leaders.

America seems to have arrived at the point where a fair bit of the electorate and (what's much much worse) a significant number of politicians seem to think that the only way to redress their grievances is to kiss goodbye to the Republic and rule by decree. That's a dark place to be, and very different than any other protests in the last century.

It's why trying to compare this to issues like BLM is so misrepresentative. The methods are similar, but the goal is something that no free citizen should want. If you value some particular political position over free and fair elections then your priorities are seriously misplaced.
 

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That's why his remarks are filled with put-downs, straw men, and half truths. So my advice is, don't waste your time.
That's actually a put down, a straw man, and a half truth.

Honestly, I think we're having good discussions here. I see no need for personal attacks and have no desire to attack you personally. ☮ and 🧡
 
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