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Years ago, I had a serious internal debate on whether to go with Tesla, who was promising a "cheap" Model 3 in the near future; or a 2017 Bolt, that could be ordered with a short delivery time. My situation is that I'm in my 70's, want to enjoy an electric car, and start on the right path of Tesla vs. other manufacturers. My prime consideration was how things would look 4 or 5 years down the road for the cars. Tesla had the edge in technology at that time (and still does), but Musk seemed to be going the route of Apple in their business philosophy. "We own the technology, therefore, we own you". I hated the idea that I would always have to be their customer - only. So I decided to go the "generic" route with a Bolt and it's CCS charging system.

A recent video by Rich Rebuilds
seems to vindicate my decision. If you are not familiar with him, he is very popular on the internet and rebuilds wrecked Teslas, using his electrical engineering skills. Tesla arbitrarily cut-off his use of their fast charge network because his car didn't meet their "standards". Even after he spent $12000 having them re-certify his rebuilt Tesla. This effectively hobbled him in being able to use the car. He owns the car, but they control the recharge system. Too bad for Rich. He was a dedicated fan of Tesla, but feels he is now forced to go with another brand. It would be ironic if he ended-up buying a Bolt. So congratulations on your choice Bolters !
 

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Yeah, but what are the odds of a normal owner being denied access to chargers? Just because a guy who rebuilt a salvage title car had an issue doesn't mean the typical owner is going to similarly have issues.

I'd go further to say that there is likely more benefit in the Tesla charging infrastructure availability, reliability, and charging speed than the risk of Tesla blacklisting your car. While there may be a chance of that happening, we see people all the time reporting issues with CCS chargers.

I'm not saying you choose wrong or that the Bolt isn't a fantastic car, but the implication that people are more likely to have charging issues with a Tesla vs a Bolt seem misguided.
 

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On a different forum I frequent, one thread on EVs had many discussing the Model 3 with real interest back in 2017 before its release. One participant, an engineer in the automotive industry, made some very significant points:
  • Tesla exclusively held parts supply and controlled the car's ecosystem
  • no way they were going to have a manufacturing process in place with good quality control in the short timeline they were promising
  • corrosion resistance very unproven (this was a Canadian forum, so this was a serious point of consideration)
His general conclusion was that owning a Tesla Model 3 at that early stage, and likely a long time beyond, would be an aggravating experience. I'm glad I took his points and steered towards the Bolt, as I know pain points would've been really bothersome for me.

That said, I do see the Model Y as a very possible next car, but I'll wait to see if he's found improvement in these areas (though I know Tesla controlling the ecosystem like Apple isn't going to change).
 

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Worlds apart. The guy that put a Bolt EV battery and power train in a 1980 Vanagon can fast charge.
I just reread all his posts up to the last, two days ago. The wreck caused his DC fast charging to not function, as others have experienced. And as others have found, he was unable to get it to work. They did the entire trip on 120/240 charging. He makes no mention in his more resent posts as to whether that situation has changed.
 

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"My prime consideration was how things would look 4 or 5 years down the road for the cars. Tesla had the edge in technology at that time (and still does), but Musk seemed to be going the route of Apple in their business philosophy. "We own the technology, therefore, we own you".

And the is the reason I will never have or will buy any apple Products
I like Tesla but charging someone a bunch of money for certifying a car and the later disable fast charging it not the way to go... I will have to really think about that before purchasing one.
 

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I'm an Android user and one reason among many is I refuse to join Apple's walled garden where they control your device and software. I prefer the freedom and flexibility. So I agree with your general sentiment. One correction, Rich did not spend $12k to have his car re-certified, he said a "friend" did.

My main beef with what Tesla is doing is stopping DC fast charging on networks other than their own. They own the Supercharger network, so they can restrict access if they want, same as how Apple can restrict their products. That's something you need to be aware of and if it doesn't bother you, fine, that's your choice. But them going the additional step of disabling all DC fast charging is a bit of overreach IMO. I can see them doing it because they don't want to be blamed for any issues caused by a salvage vehicle using someone else's equipment, but I think that's a stretch.

I also think you are a bit early in declaring victory. We're still in the infancy of EV adoption and manufacturer's approaches to repair and access are fluid and evolving. Just because Tesla disavowed something now and Chevy didn't doesn't mean things will stay that way and won't/can't change.

What we need to be fighting for and concerned about is right to repair.
 

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I have a Bolt. Great car. It's my Cape Cod runabout. I will buy a Tesla Y as I need an EV that will take me and my wife to relatives in CA, from our place in southern AZ. A very simple process with a Tesla and the several Superchargers along the route (8 to San Diego). That would be an all but impossible trip with the current charging infrastructure available to non-Tesla autos.

Just a fact of life.

Rich
 

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Yeah, but what are the odds of a normal owner being denied access to chargers? Just because a guy who rebuilt a salvage title car had an issue doesn't mean the typical owner is going to similarly have issues.
I think the issue for "authorized" owners of Teslas may be in terms of insurance costs. If Tesla blacklists rebuilt vehicles it will drive down the value of salvage cars, which may in turn increase the cost of insurance. It would doubtless be a pretty small effect, but that's the link that I can see.
 

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I was all on board with Tesla as soon as they started taking $1000 deposits for their "$35,000 Model 3". I'm still waiting for that car. I got my money back. Teslas are great, but they're not the Holy Grail. I got tired of waiting, plus Tesla doesn't do leases (a really stupid business move). And honestly, the more I see of him, the more I think Elon Musk has gone right off the deep end. I work with a lot of physicians who own Teslas, and their stories of being nickel and dimed to death have really put me off Tesla forever.
 

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I was all on board with Tesla as soon as they started taking $1000 deposits for their "$35,000 Model 3". I'm still waiting for that car. I got my money back. Teslas are great, but they're not the Holy Grail. I got tired of waiting, plus Tesla doesn't do leases (a really stupid business move). And honestly, the more I see of him, the more I think Elon Musk has gone right off the deep end. I work with a lot of physicians who own Teslas, and their stories of being nickel and dimed to death have really put me off Tesla forever.
The $35,000 Model 3 was available for about 2 months last year, and now it's up to something like $35,600. Leases were also available about a year ago.

You may have got tired waiting for those things prior to that, but to say you're still waiting is either ignorant or disingenuous.

Tesla Leasing
 

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On a different forum I frequent, one thread on EVs had many discussing the Model 3 with real interest back in 2017 before its release. One participant, an engineer in the automotive industry, made some very significant points:
  • Tesla exclusively held parts supply and controlled the car's ecosystem
  • no way they were going to have a manufacturing process in place with good quality control in the short timeline they were promising
  • corrosion resistance very unproven (this was a Canadian forum, so this was a serious point of consideration)
His general conclusion was that owning a Tesla Model 3 at that early stage, and likely a long time beyond, would be an aggravating experience. I'm glad I took his points and steered towards the Bolt, as I know pain points would've been really bothersome for me.

That said, I do see the Model Y as a very possible next car, but I'll wait to see if he's found improvement in these areas (though I know Tesla controlling the ecosystem like Apple isn't going to change).
What was the rate of M3s needing work after they were produced prior to delivery? It was over 80% IIRC. And those that were missed and returned for repair by customers, which Tesla wasn't prepared for. I read all of that on the Tesla forums before I quit wasting my time on it. I had a "deposit" for under 2 months before I saw the light.
 

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They did the entire trip on 120/240 charging. He makes no mention in his more resent posts as to whether that situation has changed.
Interesting. In his post about his trip on Wed Oct 30, 2019 6:59 am, he mentions the following:
(I will repair my fast charge connection to be able to charge at 400V station \ around 1h per charge)
 

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Yeah, but what are the odds of a normal owner being denied access to chargers? Just because a guy who rebuilt a salvage title car had an issue doesn't mean the typical owner is going to similarly have issues.

I'd go further to say that there is likely more benefit in the Tesla charging infrastructure availability, reliability, and charging speed than the risk of Tesla blacklisting your car. While there may be a chance of that happening, we see people all the time reporting issues with CCS chargers.

I'm not saying you choose wrong or that the Bolt isn't a fantastic car, but the implication that people are more likely to have charging issues with a Tesla vs a Bolt seem misguided.
Tesla may not blacklist non-salvage cars, but they have already reduced charging speed on older / high mileage Model S's to "protect the battery" via over the air update... In other words, they are protecting their company from warranty battery replacement by hobbling their customers cars.

Keith

PS: Not talking about the BMS restriction on supercharging speed after you reach a specific amount of cumulative DCFC charging on a Tesla... even though they didn't disclose that until after they had complaints. They took the already restricted charging speed and restricted it even more via over the air update.

PPS: I think restricting Supercharger use by Salvage Tesla's is underhanded, turning off ALL DCFC capability is criminal. They have maliciously damaged the property of Rich from Rich rebuilds... but I don't think he has the monetary resources to win a legal battle.
 

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I'm not up on the particulars of Rich, but I'm saying the underlying premise of this thread is suspect; that Bolt owners are more charging "secure" than Tesla owners. I don't buy that. Even if Tesla reduced the charging speed on the Model S, are they now below the 55 kW limit of the Bolt?

I wouldn't use an anecdote to say that a bullet had been dodged.

Again, this isn't to say that there aren't great reasons to be a Bolt owner, only saying that 1 story doesn't prove that Bolt owners as a whole have better fast charging experiences as Tesla owners as a whole.
 

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I have a Bolt. Great car. It's my Cape Cod runabout. I will buy a Tesla Y as I need an EV that will take me and my wife to relatives in CA, from our place in southern AZ. A very simple process with a Tesla and the several Superchargers along the route (8 to San Diego). That would be an all but impossible trip with the current charging infrastructure available to non-Tesla autos.

Just a fact of life.

Rich
You can drive from South East Arizona to San Diego, CA with three charging stops right now in your Bolt EV... why do you think you need a Tesla for this trip? Personally, if I were to purchase NEW again I would get a Mustang Mach E over a Tesla Y. If the price of used model 3's don't come down to something reasonable I may avoid them as well. Any 3 you see for sale at a reasonable price has a salvage title, and is thus no longer DCFC capable.

Keith
 
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