[Bazinga]

We already know that GM won't pay for CCS fast-charging sites and Tesla won't change their plugs to fit other EV, so who does pay for the needed infrastructure? I was reading an article from the Motley Fool and it is an interesting question.

They estimate that around 100,000 stations will be needed in the U.S. along by 2020 and at $20,000 each, that's around $2 billion. If Nissan follows in GM's footsteps and decide not to invest then who will pay for it?

 

[DucRider]

Tesla will let any manufacturer that wishes to do so enable their vehicles for Supercharging. The patents are open and other manufacturers can incorporate the hardware and software needed to use the Supercharges. BUT, the actual use of the supercharging network will require a financial commitment to the network. Other manufacturers are free to "buy-in" and help fund the Supercharging network (existing locations and expansion). Long term, I see this as the most viable option.

Suggesting that Tesla needs to change its hardware to fit other EV's is ridiculous. The first problem is none of the other standards allow for charging at the ~120 Kw provided by superchargers. The other is telling Tesla "You've invested millions of dollars into this network. Now change it so the rest of us (that haven't paid a dime) can use it". Seriously?

GM needs to swallow their pride, kick in $20 million (or whatever), and pass that on @ $1000 per Bolt for Supercharger access. I'd pay that over the $750 CCS option any day. They could break even on the $20 mil in the first year. I don't have any idea what Tesla wants from a manufacturer to join, but it would be in the best interest of GM to find out.

 

[Bazinga]

No, I'm not suggesting that Tesla should change their hardware since they've invested so much into it. Makes more sense for other manufacturers to team up with Tesla when it comes to chargers but I doubt GM will want to partner up with Tesla since they are the two main competitors right now. In the long term it would benefit us as buyers but I don't think they see it that way.

If only the Bolt EV is supercharger compatible, as you said the patent is available for other manufacturers. If the Bolt EV can use the supercharger, people can opt in to use the Tesla network for an additional, cost. Tesla used to have a $2,500 fee up front for the less expensive Model S 40 and 60 before the fee was bundled with all Model S.

 

[michael]

Wouldn't there be an adapter available to connect the Tesla charger to a vehicle like the Bolt? I would assume that the fact that the cars converter can only take a certain level of charge would limit the amount of current supplied by the supercharger.

 

[Bazinga]

Heard there was an adapter like that last year but it wasn't owned by Tesla. That's just theft in my eyes and a drain on Tesla when they already don't make that much per vehicle sale.

I feel like manufacturers should just work with Tesla so there's one standard charger. This is like the andriod and iphone charger problem but with EVs instead.

 

[DucRider]

Wouldn't there be an adapter available to connect the Tesla charger to a vehicle like the Bolt? I would assume that the fact that the cars converter can only take a certain level of charge would limit the amount of current supplied by the supercharger.

Heard there was an adapter like that last year but it wasn't owned by Tesla. That's just theft in my eyes and a drain on Tesla when they already don't make that much per vehicle sale.

I feel like manufacturers should just work with Tesla so there's one standard charger. This is like the andriod and iphone charger problem but with EVs instead.

It would take much more that a physical adapter to get another standard to use a Supercharger. There are communication protocols (Supercharging and CHAdeMO use CAN BUS, CCS uses PLC), plus the PWM signal can be based on either current or voltage detection. All this can be overcome - for a price. Teslas adapter to allow their cars to use CHAdeMO fast charging stations costs $450.

Even if you made an adapter that handled the physical and electronic communication translation, you still couldn't charge at a Tesla Supercharger. Part of the charge protocol is VIN verification, and your Bolt wouldn't be in the database of valid VIN#'s allowed to charge.

Even Tesla is frustrated by the charge protocol variance. As a result, they manufacture cars with different charging connectors for different markets (US/Japan and EU/China/Australia).

 

[Bazinga]

I've never realized how advanced Tesla's chargers are and the need for vin verification just to use one. For everyone else, we'll have to rely on third party chargers for long distance driving.

 

[Richard Sewill]

I just heard about the Volkswagen settlement with the FTC.
https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2016/06/volkswagen-spend-147-billion-settle-allegations-cheating

From the webpage,
"Zero Emissions Technology Investments: The Clean Air Act settlement also requires VW to invest $2 billion toward improving infrastructure, access and education to support and advance zero emission vehicles. The investments will be made over 10 years, with $1.2 billion directed toward a national EPA-approved investment plan and $800 million directed toward a California-specific investment plan that will be approved by CARB. As part of developing the national plan, Volkswagen will solicit and consider input from interested states, cities, Indian tribes and federal agencies. This investment is intended to address the adverse environmental impacts from consumers’ purchases of the 2.0 liter vehicles, which the governments contend were purchased under the mistaken belief that they were lower emitting vehicles."

Is it possible Volkswagen will spend part of this $2 billion to help build a DC fast charging infrastructure? I am hoping a portion of this money will go toward DC fast charging stations, but am only guessing. Does anyone know if Volkswagen plans to build hydrogen fuel cell vehicles or electric vehicles? Logic suggests Volkswagen will try to build infrastructure its future vehicles can use.

I could be mistaken, but am guessing Volkswagen will support the same DC fast charging standard used by the Chevrolet Bolt.

I am only guessing. My attempts to find anything more than speculation what the $2 billion investment will actually go toward have failed.

 

[DucRider]

I just heard about the Volkswagen settlement with the FTC.
https://www.ftc.gov/news-events/press-releases/2016/06/volkswagen-spend-147-billion-settle-allegations-cheating

From the webpage,
"Zero Emissions Technology Investments: The Clean Air Act settlement also requires VW to invest $2 billion toward improving infrastructure, access and education to support and advance zero emission vehicles. The investments will be made over 10 years, with $1.2 billion directed toward a national EPA-approved investment plan and $800 million directed toward a California-specific investment plan that will be approved by CARB. As part of developing the national plan, Volkswagen will solicit and consider input from interested states, cities, Indian tribes and federal agencies. This investment is intended to address the adverse environmental impacts from consumers’ purchases of the 2.0 liter vehicles, which the governments contend were purchased under the mistaken belief that they were lower emitting vehicles."

Is it possible Volkswagen will spend part of this $2 billion to help build a DC fast charging infrastructure? I am hoping a portion of this money will go toward DC fast charging stations, but am only guessing. Does anyone know if Volkswagen plans to build hydrogen fuel cell vehicles or electric vehicles? Logic suggests Volkswagen will try to build infrastructure its future vehicles can use.

I could be mistaken, but am guessing Volkswagen will support the same DC fast charging standard used by the Chevrolet Bolt.

I am only guessing. My attempts to find anything more than speculation what the $2 billion investment will actually go toward have failed.

I was at an event last week about the West Coast Electric Highway with speakers from CA, OR & WA. That question came up during the audience Q&A. A portion is certain to be used to fund CCS fast charging locations. It's too soon for any details, but they will likely get credit for the current joint venture with BMW.
CARB may very well push for a portion to fund Hydrogen stations since seem to be committed to them. Education and other uses will get a large chunk, so don't expect anywhere near the full amount to be used for public DCFC. I actually think a good use would be to help fund workplace charging - there is a significant portion of the population without the ability to install charging where they live (apartment, street parking/no garage, etc.) and workplace charging will go a long way towards making EV's a viable option for more households.

It is important to note, that the $2B fund will be held and maintained by VW and used for approved programs with oversight by the EPA and/or FTC.