[Packard V8]

Some family members have a place in Moab, UT and we love to send time there with them hiking and visiting the six state and four national parks. Seeing is not believing; just beyond human comprehensionl

The roads through the parks are always crowded, 30 - 45 MPH speed limits, curves, hills and spectacular scenery on both sides and sometimes straight up and straight down.

They have a Tesla with autopilot and follow cruise; these two features our Bolt lacks makes the day in the park in a Tesla a walk in the park. Thanksgiving weekend is crowded and there was a twenty-minute-stop-and-go line just to get into the park; follow cruise made that cake. Then, set the autopilot at 45 MPH and the Tesla does the rest. If the car in front doesn't hold a steady speed, the autopilot can be set to maintain 1 - 5 car lengths behind the car in front and follow the road. A gentle hand resting on the bottom of the steering wheel is all that is necessary and the driver can enjoy the scenery as much as the passengers. Tesla knows when the speed limits change and will slow and go as necessary.

Having said how much I love autopilot in that situation, there are times it gets it wrong and will scare the shite out of everyone in the car. A cyclist on the shoulder will cause autopilot to panic, slowing rapidly, beeping warnings and switching off. Coming down the mountain toward the park entrance, there are a series of 15 - 25 MPH 180-degree switchbacks. The autopilot had been slowing for most of these, but the last one it ran straight into it at 45 MPH, not noticeably slowing. The Tesla's owner says, "Trust the technology." but there was a vertical sandstone bluff staring us in the face; trust, but verify.

Bottom line, the Tesla autopilot is almost as smooth as a really good driver; but it's not yet anywhere near autonomous, but in the situations for which it is suited, it's magic.

jack vines

 

[MisterJJ]

They have a Tesla with autopilot and follow cruise

That's just what the car comes with, right? Not the full self-driving?

 

[Willie]

My '22 Bolt EV with adaptive cruise control has a following distance feature, but not the main-highway SuperCruise that's available on the EUV. I guess neither of those would be of use in your situation, right?

 

[atc98092]

My '22 Bolt EV with adaptive cruise control has a following distance feature, but not the main-highway SuperCruise that's available on the EUV. I guess neither of those would be of use in your situation, right?

Most likely that is not a super-cruise mapped highway.

 

[OkieBolt]

We had fun this week in my brothers M3P with FSDB. Stopped at a light behind a car. Our traffic direction is 2 lanes that quickly merges to one lane. We are in the lane the road merges into. We get trough the intersection and the car in front is not going very fast. The Tesla changes lanes to the right lane (that ends soon and ends with a hard curb) and starts to accelerate towards the curb! Now, a human driver with the intent to pass the car in front could have done it, it may have been close but doable. FSD on the other hand did not seem to know that the lane ended and was not going to be going fast enough to merge back in front of the car it just passed. My brother took control back and merged back behind the car where it was to begin with. It is entirely possible that FSD would have seen the curb in time to slow down and stop or merge back, but was not worth finding out.

FSD is doing an incredible job for what is being asked of it but still has a ways to go before really being able to be autonomous. It does weird things. Things you might expect a novice driver to do. In a lot of cases it feels like a 15yr old with a learners permit trying to drive with no instructions. It could really use a 180 degree camera on the nose of the car or something on the front on each side to assist in seeing around corners.

 

[RichCapeCod]

That's just what the car comes with, right? Not the full self-driving?

Yes, comes standard with the Tesla autos. Works very well. Wifey claims our Tesla drives better than I can. At least it pays more attention to what's going on around us!

Rich

 

[Fivedoor]

Coming down the mountain toward the park entrance, there are a series of 15 - 25 MPH 180-degree switchbacks. The autopilot had been slowing for most of these, but the last one it ran straight into it at 45 MPH, not noticeably slowing. The Tesla's owner says, "Trust the technology." but there was a vertical sandstone bluff staring us in the face; trust, but verify.

Bottom line, the Tesla autopilot is almost as smooth as a really good driver; but it's not yet anywhere near autonomous, but in the situations for which it is suited, it's magic.

jack vines

The Tesla owner is a fool, hope that isn't too harsh when applied to your friend / relative but it is a fact. The owners manual says "don't trust the technology, you are in control of the car" every driver assistance feature you turn on is listed as "BETA" on the controls screen. If you get in an accident Tesla (via their lawyers) says "you were in control of the car, the accident is your fault" Also, the instructions for Auto Pilot and TACC (Traffic Aware Cruise Control) say that they are only for use on freeways and highways, not for use on curvy roads or city streets.

Simply put, the owner of the Tesla risked your lives on BETA technology that is not meant for use on curvy roads while driving on roads with hairpin turns in the mountains.

The technology works pretty good on limited access highways, but the vision only Auto Pilot (they deleted the radar in newer Model 3 and Model Y) sucks on rural highways. In those situations it goes from a 15 year old with a learners permit with no instructions, to a nervous 15 year old with a learners permit and an angry father in the passenger seat that keeps yelling at him. At night on rural highways it acts like a terrified 8 year old behind the wheel with no adult supervision.

Keith

PS: Full Self Drive (Beta, Beta) when complete will be a "high functioning" level 2 autonomous system. No way in heII will they reach Level 4, let alone Level 5 with the current hardware.

PPS: I call FSD "Beta, Beta" because REGULAR FSD is a Beta system... what they are calling FSD Beta is actually an Alpha system that they are testing on public roads.

 

[cyaopec]

I find it odd that AP can't take turns at "normal" speed or anticipate when to slow down. I would think that would be something trivial for a computer to calculate. Then again, there are no pilotless fighter jets. So perhaps high speed maneuvers are more difficult than a layperson realizes.

 

[GregBrew]

I find it odd that AP can't take turns at "normal" speed or anticipate when to slow down. I would think that would be something trivial for a computer to calculate. Then again, there are no pilotless fighter jets. So perhaps high speed maneuvers are more difficult than a layperson realizes.

"Then again, there are no pilotless fighter jets."

Au contraire:

A Military Drone With A Mind Of Its Own Was Used In Combat, U.N. Says

Autonomous drones can fly themselves to a specific location, pick their own targets and kill without the assistance of a remote human operator. The U.N. says such a drone was in the air in March 2020.

www.npr.org

 

[bolt-ish]

Bottom line, the Tesla autopilot is almost as smooth as a really good driver; but it's not yet anywhere near autonomous, but in the situations for which it is suited, it's magic.

Tesla FSD is improving so rapidly, you have to say what version you experienced, not just where and the conditions.

My most recent experience was about a month ago in a mixed suburban/business district. I'd call it middling student driver level, meaning you have to mentally drive along and expect that occasionally the student will need some input and perhaps correction. The thing is,lately it has been improving about as fast as an average human student. And it's already not unusual for it to make safety moves that few drivers are capable of performing.

The safety bean counters include sub-par driving events, but do not count supra-par driving events. By the time FSD reaches average driver level in terms of errors, it will far ahead in terms of safety.

I give it a year to be chauffeur level.

 

[RichCapeCod]

I find it odd that AP can't take turns at "normal" speed or anticipate when to slow down....

Well, actually it can. Takes turns at "normal" speeds at curves in the road. Just for giggles I turn on AP in our model Y when on regular streets, side streets, twisty streets; works really well. And, yes, I'm paying attention to what's going on around me.

Now, FSD is another matter. That has a way to go yet, IMHO.

Rich

 

[Bolt Action]

Although having an HOV sticker helps a lot in the busy commute hours, I would gladly trade the sticker in for FSD or SuperCruise in the non-HOV lane, just for the ability to commute with less stress.

 

[EVmunkey]

I wonder how different I am from the rest of the driving public.
I have been driving now for 50+ years and consider myself an enthusiast. In all this time logging about 20k miles every year I have employed cruise control at most three times a year. I drive many long trips where cruise would be a good idea but I never leave it on for long as I find it annoying and I naturally want to make the decisions.
I pay nearly zero attention to the automation of the driving experience as I want to drive, not be driven. Thus the complaints about cruise pros and cons never enter my calculations in a vehicle evaluation.
I focus on the ride, handling, range and general performance.
I also have many years experience with machines that allegedly “think” and have learned from hard experience that they don’t.

 

[atc98092]

@EVmunkey sounds like we are a similar age. I prefer using adaptive cruise control on the open freeway, as it relieves me of any concern for monitoring my speed, and keeps me from a possible ticket. Around town, I use it when I'm within a city that has a reputation for ticketing at the drop of a hat for even a few over. But in town I use standard cruise, as the adaptive version is often too sensitive about surrounding traffic. And with the Bolt, I never use cruise when I'm in hilly areas, as it does a terrible job of generating regen while in cruise. It will not go beyond coasting regen, instead applying the brakes to control speed. I've documented it quite clearly, and I'd rather gain back that wasted energy, not waste it as heat with the brakes.

 

[cyaopec]

Well, actually it can. Takes turns at "normal" speeds at curves in the road. Just for giggles I turn on AP in our model Y when on regular streets, side streets, twisty streets; works really well. And, yes, I'm paying attention to what's going on around me.

Now, FSD is another matter. That has a way to go yet, IMHO.

Rich

With HW 2.5 it goes fast into turns and then brakes coming out, which is the opposite of how normal people drive. There's no way a Tesla engineer could ride in my car and say that it feels "normal" when turning. So it must be a sensor/computer issue because if it could be "smoothed out" with software it would have been done. I'm obviously talking about higher speed, twisty roads, which you should not use AP on. It's fine on the freeway.

 

[EVolved]

With HW 2.5 it goes fast into turns and then brakes coming out, which is the opposite of how normal people drive. There's no way a Tesla engineer could ride in my car and say that it feels "normal" when turning. So it must be a sensor/computer issue because if it could be "smoothed out" with software it would have been done. I'm obviously talking about higher speed, twisty roads, which you should not use AP on. It's fine on the freeway.

Are you on 10.4 or 10.5. I haven’t had much opportunity to run it through its paces but from what I’ve read, it’s a much bigger improvement than previous .X releases.
And for those interested in getting firsthand feedback, I’d recommend the TMC forum on FSD. With ~13,000 beta users logging millions of miles/month, there’s plenty of feedback. Of course you have to sift through the noise and filter out the negative Nancy’s and Tesla worshippers but the median is filled with tons of anecdotal data, so much so that it can be looked on as just data. Similar to the wide range of opinions on this forum related to EA chargers. In the past, some have claimed the experience, strategy, locations, density, business plan is superior to Tesla’s superchargers while others claim a 50% success rate a major win. Truth lies somewhere in the middle.

 

[Fivedoor]

@EVmunkey And with the Bolt, I never use cruise when I'm in hilly areas, as it does a terrible job of generating regen while in cruise. It will not go beyond coasting regen, instead applying the brakes to control speed. I've documented it quite clearly, and I'd rather gain back that wasted energy, not waste it as heat with the brakes.

Interesting. My 2017 Bolt never uses the friction brakes when the cruise is on, even on steep mountain roads. The regen gets fairly high on a steep decent, but it has never "pegged out" at 70 KW.

Keith

 

[Fivedoor]

Are you on 10.4 or 10.5. I haven’t had much opportunity to run it through its paces but from what I’ve read, it’s a much bigger improvement than previous .X releases.
And for those interested in getting firsthand feedback, I’d recommend the TMC forum on FSD. With ~13,000 beta users logging millions of miles/month, there’s plenty of feedback. Of course you have to sift through the noise and filter out the negative Nancy’s and Tesla worshippers but the median is filled with tons of anecdotal data, so much so that it can be looked on as just data. Similar to the wide range of opinions on this forum related to EA chargers. In the past, some have claimed the experience, strategy, locations, density, business plan is superior to Tesla’s superchargers while others claim a 50% success rate a major win. Truth lies somewhere in the middle.

My greatest hope is that all the vision only FSD Beta miles will give Tesla enough data to make vision only TACC not suck on two lane highways... The more people who sign up as Beta Testers, the better!

Keith

 

[atc98092]

Interesting. My 2017 Bolt never uses the friction brakes when the cruise is on, even on steep mountain roads. The regen gets fairly high on a steep decent, but it has never "pegged out" at 70 KW.

Keith

Others have reported the same, but there’s no question my EUV is using the mechanical brakes going down hills. I’ve tested both with and without cruise enabled, both with and without one pedal turned on. Regen maxes out at 10kW on cruise, while it goes much higher without cruise. There’s no other explanation for the difference.

 

[RichCapeCod]

... Similar to the wide range of opinions on this forum related to EA chargers. .... Truth lies somewhere in the middle.

I wonder if the variations are due to differences in vehicles. I don't have phantom braking in my Tesla Y. Others do. I think the same variations might well exist among FSD users. Just a guess.

Rich