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Yes, there some places and times where a Tesla might be worth the money; maybe

6452 Views 64 Replies 21 Participants Last post by shrox, Dec 17, 2021

Packard V8

Discussion Starter · Nov 27, 2021

Some family members have a place in Moab, UT and we love to send time there with them hiking and visiting the six state and four national parks. Seeing is not believing; just beyond human comprehensionl

The roads through the parks are always crowded, 30 - 45 MPH speed limits, curves, hills and spectacular scenery on both sides and sometimes straight up and straight down.

They have a Tesla with autopilot and follow cruise; these two features our Bolt lacks makes the day in the park in a Tesla a walk in the park. Thanksgiving weekend is crowded and there was a twenty-minute-stop-and-go line just to get into the park; follow cruise made that cake. Then, set the autopilot at 45 MPH and the Tesla does the rest. If the car in front doesn't hold a steady speed, the autopilot can be set to maintain 1 - 5 car lengths behind the car in front and follow the road. A gentle hand resting on the bottom of the steering wheel is all that is necessary and the driver can enjoy the scenery as much as the passengers. Tesla knows when the speed limits change and will slow and go as necessary.

Having said how much I love autopilot in that situation, there are times it gets it wrong and will scare the shite out of everyone in the car. A cyclist on the shoulder will cause autopilot to panic, slowing rapidly, beeping warnings and switching off. Coming down the mountain toward the park entrance, there are a series of 15 - 25 MPH 180-degree switchbacks. The autopilot had been slowing for most of these, but the last one it ran straight into it at 45 MPH, not noticeably slowing. The Tesla's owner says, "Trust the technology." but there was a vertical sandstone bluff staring us in the face; trust, but verify.

Bottom line, the Tesla autopilot is almost as smooth as a really good driver; but it's not yet anywhere near autonomous, but in the situations for which it is suited, it's magic.

jack vines

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Fivedoor

· #7 · Nov 28, 2021 (Edited)

Packard V8 said:
Coming down the mountain toward the park entrance, there are a series of 15 - 25 MPH 180-degree switchbacks. The autopilot had been slowing for most of these, but the last one it ran straight into it at 45 MPH, not noticeably slowing. The Tesla's owner says, "Trust the technology." but there was a vertical sandstone bluff staring us in the face; trust, but verify.

Bottom line, the Tesla autopilot is almost as smooth as a really good driver; but it's not yet anywhere near autonomous, but in the situations for which it is suited, it's magic.

jack vines

The Tesla owner is a fool, hope that isn't too harsh when applied to your friend / relative but it is a fact. The owners manual says "don't trust the technology, you are in control of the car" every driver assistance feature you turn on is listed as "BETA" on the controls screen. If you get in an accident Tesla (via their lawyers) says "you were in control of the car, the accident is your fault" Also, the instructions for Auto Pilot and TACC (Traffic Aware Cruise Control) say that they are only for use on freeways and highways, not for use on curvy roads or city streets.

Simply put, the owner of the Tesla risked your lives on BETA technology that is not meant for use on curvy roads while driving on roads with hairpin turns in the mountains.

The technology works pretty good on limited access highways, but the vision only Auto Pilot (they deleted the radar in newer Model 3 and Model Y) sucks on rural highways. In those situations it goes from a 15 year old with a learners permit with no instructions, to a nervous 15 year old with a learners permit and an angry father in the passenger seat that keeps yelling at him. At night on rural highways it acts like a terrified 8 year old behind the wheel with no adult supervision.

Keith

PS: Full Self Drive (Beta, Beta) when complete will be a "high functioning" level 2 autonomous system. No way in heII will they reach Level 4, let alone Level 5 with the current hardware.

PPS: I call FSD "Beta, Beta" because REGULAR FSD is a Beta system... what they are calling FSD Beta is actually an Alpha system that they are testing on public roads.

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Fivedoor

· #17 · Nov 29, 2021

atc98092 said:
@EVmunkey And with the Bolt, I never use cruise when I'm in hilly areas, as it does a terrible job of generating regen while in cruise. It will not go beyond coasting regen, instead applying the brakes to control speed. I've documented it quite clearly, and I'd rather gain back that wasted energy, not waste it as heat with the brakes.

Interesting. My 2017 Bolt never uses the friction brakes when the cruise is on, even on steep mountain roads. The regen gets fairly high on a steep decent, but it has never "pegged out" at 70 KW.

Keith

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Fivedoor

· #18 · Nov 29, 2021

EVolved said:
Are you on 10.4 or 10.5. I haven’t had much opportunity to run it through its paces but from what I’ve read, it’s a much bigger improvement than previous .X releases.
And for those interested in getting firsthand feedback, I’d recommend the TMC forum on FSD. With ~13,000 beta users logging millions of miles/month, there’s plenty of feedback. Of course you have to sift through the noise and filter out the negative Nancy’s and Tesla worshippers but the median is filled with tons of anecdotal data, so much so that it can be looked on as just data. Similar to the wide range of opinions on this forum related to EA chargers. In the past, some have claimed the experience, strategy, locations, density, business plan is superior to Tesla’s superchargers while others claim a 50% success rate a major win. Truth lies somewhere in the middle.

My greatest hope is that all the vision only FSD Beta miles will give Tesla enough data to make vision only TACC not suck on two lane highways... The more people who sign up as Beta Testers, the better!

Keith

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Fivedoor

· #31 · Nov 29, 2021

atc98092 said:
Others have reported the same, but there’s no question my EUV is using the mechanical brakes going down hills. I’ve tested both with and without cruise enabled, both with and without one pedal turned on. Regen maxes out at 10kW on cruise, while it goes much higher without cruise. There’s no other explanation for the difference.

I hope that the battery replacement on the earlier cars doesn't result in this horrible behavior in those cars!

Keith

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Fivedoor

· #32 · Nov 29, 2021

RichCapeCod said:
I wonder if the variations are due to differences in vehicles. I don't have phantom braking in my Tesla Y. Others do. I think the same variations might well exist among FSD users. Just a guess.

Rich

Isn't yours a 2020 or early 2021 with Radar?

Keith

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Fivedoor

· #64 · Dec 17, 2021 (Edited)

Sean Nelson said:
Using the phrases "Autopilot" and "Full Self Driving" to market what they're actually delivering supports the narrative that they're pushing the idea that the technology can do more than it's really capable of. Given the actual functionality, those terms are misleading at best IMHO.

And you have Tesla owners like the one posted about in this thread that say "trust the technology" when they don't even realize they are asking it to do more than it is designed to handle because of the hype.

All the hype about "constant improvements via over the air updates" boils down to not having to vet your software before you release it into the wild, and convincing people that this is a good thing.

Keith

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