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I agree with you that Toyota should not be the measuring stick for innovation( and this is coming from lifelong Toyota purchaser). For years they have been in denial around the viability of EV cars and as we know put all of their eggs in the hydrogen basket. Even the Prius prime indicates that they are certainly not all in.

Unless they come out revolutionary solid state battery tech as a game changer there will still plenty of other choices in 2020.

While my Bolt is a lease, I'd considering purchasing it at the end if the next two 2 years are as rock steady as this last year. I love this car.

For my second EV, I would then consider trading in my 2017 GTI for the new VW ID or Cross ID- If they hold true to range and the price is right.
 
Toyota Prius was the first mass produced hybrid, but since then they have lacked in technology behind almost every car manufacture. The Prius Prime is the answer to the Chevy Volt, and not a great answer to it IMO. Toyota is one of the few manufacturers that haven't jumped into the EV market, but I don't think they want to because they are very fuel efficient cars and don't sell the trucks will GM and Ford does. If you want a fuel efficient ICE car that is reliable, Toyota is a great place to start. However, in about 5 years I believe that they will suffer by not jumping into the EV game.
I agree and as a loyal Toyota purchaser I have been very disappointed in how slow they have been to move into the EV market. Also as someone who had not even looked at other brands when car searching Over the years I was amazed how many of the other brands standard technology packages ( e.g Apple play) seemed much better as I looked at other brands this time around. When the prime became available in 2016 I literally drove 40+ miles to test drive the only one available in the metro Atlanta area with the intention of buying. The test drive was so unimpressive combined with the fact that it became clear the EV range more like 20 miles if that, I decided to not purchase. In many ways Toyota is making the same mistake that many of these other companies are making doubling down on ICE trucks and SUV s. They are doubling down on the Hybrids which I think demonstrates they don't know their buyers as well as they think..Maybe they will be able to course correct quickly but I am skeptical...
 
They [Toyota] are doubling down on the Hybrids which I think demonstrates they don't know their buyers as well as they think..Maybe they will be able to course correct quickly but I am skeptical...
Their sales numbers are about as strong as ever, and the Prime is the #2 most sold plug-in vehicle in the world, selling twice as much as the Bolt.

Focus on hydrogen fuel cells was a mistake and set them back, but their sales sure aren't suffering for it.
 
Their sales numbers are about as strong as ever, and the Prime is the #2 most sold plug-in vehicle in the world, selling twice as much as the Bolt.

Focus on hydrogen fuel cells was a mistake and set them back, but their sales sure aren't suffering for it.
Time will certainly tell. I am not convinced that the Prius Prime is a bold strategic move but rather a cautious tactical response to the Volt and other Plug-ins. Now if they are in a position to provide a competitive EV when and if a EV charging network is built out and we see more EV mass adoption than I will admit I will tip my cap to them. I do agree with the previous poster that i was as surprise as anyone when I started looking at Brands other than Toyota
, how much better their tech packAges were.
 
??? Why? What's wrong with your Bolt? What's not prime time about it? Why is Toyota the decision maker of propulsion technology?
"What's wrong with my Bolt"

A good question, which should really be answered by the consequential players, that is …

(1) GM, who is reluctant to mass-manufacture the Bolt,
(2) The US Chevrolet dealers, who can't be bothered to sell it, and
(3) The US new car buyers, who aren't so keen on taking it home.

"What's not prime time about it"

I am discussing the existing EV tech in general, not the Bolt.

"Why Toyota is the decision-maker … "

I am talking about Toyota being an indicator of the maturity of the tech, not the decision maker. Like if you see people walk with open umbrellas you know it means it's raining, and not that open umbrellas somehow causes the rain.
 
"What's wrong with my Bolt"

A good question, which should really be answered by the consequential players, that is …

(1) GM, who is reluctant to mass-manufacture the Bolt,
(2) The US Chevrolet dealers, who can't be bothered to sell it, and
(3) The US new car buyers, who aren't so keen on taking it home.

"What's not prime time about it"

I am discussing the existing EV tech in general, not the Bolt.

"Why Toyota is the decision-maker … "

I am talking about Toyota being an indicator of the maturity of the tech, not the decision maker. Like if you see people walk with open umbrellas you know it means it's raining, and not that open umbrellas somehow causes the rain.

Fair points which goes to the larger point of crossing the chasm on EVs in general. Still a niche market.
 
Discussion starter · #67 ·
"Why Toyota is the decision-maker … "

I am talking about Toyota being an indicator of the maturity of the tech, not the decision maker. Like if you see people walk with open umbrellas you know it means it's raining, and not that open umbrellas somehow causes the rain.
I think that Toyota is playing it safe here. Every car company is investing billions of dollars into EV's and Toyota is just going to wait until they dive in. Honda and Toyota will produce the safe ICE engine cars for people not wanting to get an EV. Thinking about it, it may not be a bad idea. A large amount of people want their car to drive long distances without charging, don't have charging access, and some people prefer to not jump into new technology. We keep on hearing that 20% of people want an EV for their next car, but the other 80% won't buy one.
Toyota is big enough to jump into the game whenever they want if they want to. However, I do feel this is a mistake on their part. The bigger mistake is Honda with fuel cell technology. I have no idea why they won't give it up, but they keep on trying...
 
Possibly the first Chinese car to crack the west?

Interesting, but kind of like the Tesla Model 3?

Here's a summary of what I gleaned from the video:

1.) Two models: "Base" with 2-wheel RWD for $32,633 U.S. ($26,000 pounds), and "Performance/Sport" with 4WD, 460 HP for $46,440 U.S. ($37,000 pounds).

2.) 0-62 mph (0-100 km/h) for Base Model is 6.7 sec, Sport is 4.3 sec

3.) Top Speed: 105 mph (107 km/h)

4.) Battery Range (both models): 365 to 438 miles (586-706 km)

5.) 80.87 kWh Battery pack (liquid-cooled) in the floor (both models), 75 mi (120 km) charge in 10 mins @350 kW (Chinese charging network). Full battery charge ~1.5 hours w/"fast charger" (didn't specify). Two charging ports at the rear of the vehicle (fast and slow).

6.) 15.5 cu. ft (440 liters) of "boot space" (trunk). There is also some "boot space" in the front "engine" compartment. Not sure if this is in addition to this number, but I think it is.

7.) Level 2.5 Self-Driving capability (not quite "full" self-driving, which is apparently Level 3.0?)

8.) 19" wheels, 18 speakers

9.) Self-Parking Ability

10.) "Super Comfortable" seats

11.) Bigger than the Model 3

12.) Regenerative Braking

This model apparently headed for European market first?
This manufacturer also apparently builds a Tesla Model 3 clone called the "G3". Not sure how this vehicle compares to a Model 3?
 
My takeaway is sporty, fast enough, luxurious, hi tech, fast charging, with probably close to 300 mile real world range for the price of a Bolt. I would think it should sell like hotcakes.
 
Interesting, but kind of like the Tesla Model 3?

Here's a summary of what I gleaned from the video:

1.) Two models: "Base" with 2-wheel RWD for $32,633 U.S. ($26,000 pounds), and "Performance/Sport" with 4WD, 460 HP for $46,440 U.S. ($37,000 pounds).

2.) 0-62 mph (0-100 km/h) for Base Model is 6.7 sec, Sport is 4.3 sec

3.) Top Speed: 105 mph (107 km/h)

4.) Battery Range (both models): 365 to 438 miles (586-706 km)

5.) 80.87 kWh Battery pack (liquid-cooled) in the floor (both models), 75 mi (120 km) charge in 10 mins @350 kW (Chinese charging network). Full battery charge ~1.5 hours w/"fast charger" (didn't specify). Two charging ports at the rear of the vehicle (fast and slow).

6.) 15.5 cu. ft (440 liters) of "boot space" (trunk). There is also some "boot space" in the front "engine" compartment. Not sure if this is in addition to this number, but I think it is.

7.) Level 2.5 Self-Driving capability (not quite "full" self-driving, which is apparently Level 3.0?)

8.) 19" wheels, 18 speakers

9.) Self-Parking Ability

10.) "Super Comfortable" seats

11.) Bigger than the Model 3

12.) Regenerative Braking

This model apparently headed for European market first?
This manufacturer also apparently builds a Tesla Model 3 clone called the "G3". Not sure how this vehicle compares to a Model 3?
Sounds pretty decent. Trunk size is a bit small but man, that’s a good package right there.
 
New Bolt leaser here, who is also relatively new to a Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV (technically our "next" EV).

So far so great with the Outlander PHEV. We were in the market for a PHEV with AWD/4WD and it was the only one available. Mini discontinued production on their Countryman E All4 recently, so their stock has all but disappeared. Hence, the Outlander was the only option, but one we were leaning towards even if a comparable Mini reappeared.

Some observations: with a 14 kWh battery and twin electric motors (front&back for 4WD) plus ice hybrid engine, this is a heavy car (curb weight of ~ 4,200 lbs). Hence, it feels very substantial and handles quite well for a cross-over SUV. It's size is definitely on the small size for SUVs, smaller than the new Forester, and only a bit longer than the Mini Countryman, believe it or not (otherwise very similar in size). Seats 5 comfortably, but has no back row despite having a significant trunk area (batteries prevent a hideaway seat). Pricing was very reasonable with $4-5K below original msrp (for base model). Not too many choices in colors, options packages, etc. Wife commutes ~ 12 miles each way, doesn't need to charge, has yet to use much gas beyond full EV mode. So, we are getting very high MPGe at this juncture. First 50+ mile trip consumed minimal fuel as well. It will definitely be delivering on the 72 MPGe for our usage pattern.

Pros: continuous asynchronous AWD with on-demand lockable 4WD (in full EV mode or hybrid modes); reliable and robust delay charging timing and pre-conditioning; superior visibility and seating height for size (very similar to Forester); sleek look and feel for the price range (rims are striking); Lvl 2&3 charge capabilities (standard, but seemingly unnecessary for 14 kWh); full-EV priority drive mode when charge available; seamless hybrid (parallel & series) when needed (very well executed); Paddle regen control and near one-pedal driving capability; large cargo capacity; spacious interior and headroom; good touchscreen w/ autoplay capabilities/projection; folding mirrors standard; blindspot warning standard and well executed; collision warning systems available in higher model; significant progressive window tinting standard; 1500 lb towing capacity (could be a con, see below re: power); very long range on 9 gallon gas tank; and 1500W power outlet for higher end model.

Cons: ~ 30 mile full EV range on full 14 kWh charge (~ 2 mi/kWh efficiency low, but understandable w/ hybrid and weight/size/4WD); power not outstanding (OK, but with large loads and hills, definitely not comparable to small ICE SUVs); Mitsubishi App essentially not usable/pairable; limited market penetration (no significant online support community); full regen braking not as aggressive/robust as other EV...could be a weight issue (one-pedal driving not always practical); backup camera/grid static (ie, no grid curve, which you miss vs Bolt); only Black or Brown leather interiors available; and touchscreen almost has too many options to scroll through...not nearly as intuitive as Bolt.

IF anyone is in the market for a crossover SUV and is looking for 4WD/AWD, this is a great option for the money right now. Highly recommended. We had been long time Mini and Subaru fans, but with the PHEV-AWD combo nothing else fits a niche that we were keen to explore. We are leasing this, as the 30 mi full-EV range will surely improve in future comparable models. For now, however, we are very impressed with this PHEV.

Cheers,
Tim
I know this was posted many years ago but has your Mitsubishi been reliable? Any pros vs cons, if you still have it> Thank you.
 
I know this was posted many years ago but has your Mitsubishi been reliable? Any pros vs cons, if you still have it> Thank you.
FYI: You are unlikely to get an answer, that member hasn't signed on in nearly 5 years:
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Hover over the user on the left margin and the above popup appears.

Anytime you see the warning about old threads, it is worth taking a few seconds to see if the user is still active.
 
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