[2020 Bolter]

Yes, sadly our 2022 Bolts bought used with the $4k tax credit are just as @MichBolt said, not a good deal to the next buyer, unless the dealer gives us less in trade so they can sell them for less. We just gotta keep 'em I guess, which is the plan with mine.

I had read that production of the new Bolt which is now going to be a 2027, starts by the end of this year, which I'll bet will be more like December than October. If you can sneak over and peak in the windows let us know when the first new Bolt drives off the line. Being a 2027, I'll bet it will be 2026 by the time the first new Bolt lands at a dealer. Hopefully that bill goes into effect later than sooner.

Once the current administration ends the EV tax credit all used EVs are back on equal footing.

 

[rudiger]

Yes, but GM had already addressed his complaint. The revised rear suspension was great, but his book killed it anyway.

Ralph Nader was instrumental in the demise of the Corvair, I recall.

Nader did not kill the Corvair. His book was published on 01/01/1965 and the Corvair's early handling woes had been corrected by then. In fact, there were plenty of other cars at the time with the same type of IRS that suffered the same treacherous handling at the very limit of traction, with one of the best examples being the Porsche 911. They were just as dangerous but no one complained about them.

Further, the Corvair lasted another four years after Nader's book, and sales were always okay throughout its life. At first, the Corvair was a complete line of vehicles, but GM found out quickly that the model that sold the most was the sporty Monza, and that was effectively the biggest and most profitable seller.

The thing that really hurt the Corvair in the long run was the popular Ford Mustang which even Iacocca said was a direct response to the sporty Corvair Monza.

 

[rudiger]

would love a sliding rear seat like the prius V

The thing I miss the most from my 2010 Prius was the solar sunroof. It didn't do anything to directly help range, but it was quite effective at lowering the interior temperature a few degrees so the A/C didn't have to work so hard upon startup in hot weather.

 

[jagplates]

Mostly true, but tax credit money taken at the point of sale as a partial payment on the car is not a rebate. It is a tax credit available to the qualified buyer, which the buyer takes and immediately assigns to the dealer. The dealer gets a payment of your tax credit from the IRS; the buyer gets the dollar amount due on the car reduced. It is still a tax credit, not a rebate.

My state offers a rebate. I pay for the car, and submit a request for the rebate. If qualified and approved, the state sends me a rebate check from the state treasury. It is administered by the state EPA and has nothing to do with income taxes.

As I understand it, it you have the dealer take the tax credit and you make too much or don't make enough to owe $4000 in taxes, you have to PAY the government back at tax time.

 

[atc98092]

As I understand it, it you have the dealer take the tax credit and you make too much or don't make enough to owe $4000 in taxes, you have to PAY the government back at tax time.

Partially correct. The buyer must not exceed the income limit, but there's no issue with the tax liability at the end of the year. The IRS has stated in writing they will go after a repayment only if the income limit is exceeded.

 

[SteveEngineer]

Nader did not kill the Corvair. His book was published on 01/01/1965 and the Corvair's early handling woes had been corrected by then. In fact, there were plenty of other cars at the time with the same type of IRS that suffered the same treacherous handling at the very limit of traction, with one of the best examples being the Porsche 911. They were just as dangerous but no one complained about them.

Further, the Corvair lasted another four years after Nader's book, and sales were always okay throughout its life. At first, the Corvair was a complete line of vehicles, but GM found out quickly that the model that sold the most was the sporty Monza, and that was effectively the biggest and most profitable seller.

The thing that really hurt the Corvair in the long run was the popular Ford Mustang which even Iacocca said was a direct response to the sporty Corvair Monza.

Monza? Wasn't the "Corsa" model the "sporty-looking" Corvair? In any case, I always liked the looks of that car. Lee Iacocca claimed that he greatly underestimated the potential demand for the early Mustangs. He once said that Ford could have sold over three times as many 'Stangs as they did sell had Ford the manufacturing ability to build them at the time.

 

[jagplates]

Partially correct. The buyer must not exceed the income limit, but there's no issue with the tax liability at the end of the year. The IRS has stated in writing they will go after a repayment only if the income limit is exceeded.

****. I think I just wasted $4000 because I told the dealer not to take the credit because I didn't want to have to pay the IRS back. Car is in my name and my son's name so that one of us could maybe take the credit. I will make too much and he won't make enough to owe $4K in taxes. But that suggestion someone made about moving some money from an IRA to a Roth IRA might work for him.

 

[rudiger]

Monza? Wasn't the "Corsa" model the "sporty-looking" Corvair? In any case, I always liked the looks of that car. Lee Iacocca claimed that he greatly underestimated the potential demand for the early Mustangs. He once said that Ford could have sold over three times as many 'Stangs as they did sell had Ford the manufacturing ability to build them at the time.

Although the 2-door pillared coupe was introduced a few months after the initial 4-door Corvair in 1960, the more sporty Monza version came out in 1961. It quickly became the biggest seller and, within a few years, many of the other, less popular Corvair variants (like the Lakewood station wagon, Greenbrier van, and Loadside pickup) were discontinued. The Corvair Monza is the car that inspired Iacocca to create the Mustang from the lowly Falcon compact.

The turbocharged Spyder model arrived for 1962, with the new Corsa (turbo engine optional) arriving in 1965 with the restyled hardtop body. At that time, the Monza name became the standard Corvair, with the Corsa becoming the new, sporty Corvair, replacing both the Monza and Spyder. From 1960-64, lower trim Corvairs just had numerical designations.

The connection with EVs is that, up until the 2011 Chevy Volt, the Corvair was the most revolutionary new car that GM had ever produced for general sale. The Corvair was a completely new car from the ground up that shared almost nothing with any other GM vehicle until the 1961 Pontiac Tempest which used the Corvair's rear transaxle and suspension. Interestingly, because the Tempest didn't have the engine in the rear, it didn't suffer any of the same kind of driving characteristics that gave the Corvair its quirky handling.

Similarly, the Volt shared its steering rack with the new Chevy Cruze which, unfortunately, had a construction flaw that resulted in a 'silent' recall and replacement. Don't ask me how I know.

 

[SteveEngineer]

Although the 2-door pillared coupe was introduced a few months after the initial 4-door Corvair in 1960, the more sporty Monza version came out in 1961. It quickly became the biggest seller and, within a few years, many of the other, less popular Corvair variants (like the Lakewood station wagon, Greenbrier van, and Loadside pickup) were discontinued. The Corvair Monza is the car that inspired Iacocca to create the Mustang from the lowly Falcon compact.

The turbocharged Spyder model arrived for 1962, with the new Corsa (turbo engine optional) arriving in 1965 with the restyled hardtop body. At that time, the Monza name became the standard Corvair, with the Corsa becoming the new, sporty Corvair, replacing both the Monza and Spyder. From 1960-64, lower trim Corvairs just had numerical designations.

The connection with EVs is that, up until the 2011 Chevy Volt, the Corvair was the most revolutionary new car that GM had ever produced for general sale. The Corvair was a completely new car from the ground up that shared almost nothing with any other GM vehicle until the 1961 Pontiac Tempest which used the Corvair's rear transaxle and suspension. Interestingly, because the Tempest didn't have the engine in the rear, it didn't suffer any of the same kind of driving characteristics that gave the Corvair its quirky handling.

Similarly, the Volt shared its steering rack with the new Chevy Cruze which, unfortunately, had a construction flaw that resulted in a 'silent' recall and replacement. Don't ask me how I know.

`Wow! That is a lot of detailed history! Thanks rudiger.

 

[Xgrotlobyvehcx]

Was salivating over the prospect of getting a 2026 Bolt in late '25 with a $7,500 federal tax credit at time of purchase. Now that seems off the table. Looking...very reluctantly.... at alternatives to the Bolt which can be purchased by the end of '25 so as to get the rebate. Any thoughts on either the delayed Bolt or good Bolt alternatives? I would also like to stay as close as possible to the Bolt's $30k price point. Should also say that I bought a used '23 Bolt in January of this year. That's why I fell in love with it and want another one, and why I can't buy another used one and get another used-EV rebate.

Used Equinox or usd Blazer

 

[MarkL]

If I was in the market for a EV today I would be seriously looking at a used Kia EV6. That thing is an incredible value. You can get them well equipped with a 300+ mile range and fast charging for well under $25k. Which means it qualifies for the $4,500 tax credit (for however long it lasts). I've seen them for as low as $19k, not including tax credit.

 

[bisco]

older brother had a corvair when i got my license in 1970. i loved driving it, that was a very fun sporty car for cheap money at the time.
the trunk was ginormous

 

[rudiger]

older brother had a corvair when i got my license in 1970. i loved driving it, that was a very fun sporty car for cheap money at the time.
the trunk was ginormous

Overall, there wasn't anything intrinsically wrong with the Corvair. The problem was the air-cooled engine was an engineering dead-end, at least for the market demographic. GM's testing showed there wasn't a cost-effective way to correct the cooling issue in higher horsepower, sporty applications. It likely would have taken a conventional liquid coolant system, and that would have been pricey to develop. So, they just let it die.

Ironically, the Vega did worse with a woefully inadequate cooling system. Combined with non-lined cylinder walls in an aluminum engine, the Vega quickly developed a reputation for engine failures.

 

[atc98092]

Ironically, the Vega did worse with a woefully inadequate cooling system. Combined with non-lined cylinder walls in an aluminum engine, the Vega quickly developed a reputation for engine failures.

Yeah, I had one. I had to replace the short block with one that had iron cylinder sleeves. Way back when I could bend over a fender or crawl under a car without needing a ton of Advil when I finished.

 

[knoepler]

It's very common for dealers to subtract the tax credit from their advertised price...even though not all buyers will qualify. Very dishonest, but I expect nothing less from scumbag stealerships.

In this case, $16,986 + $4,000 = $20,986. Where did the other $4,470 come from?

That’s a good question. You’ll be shocked - shocked! to hear that I couldn’t get them to send me an itemized list of proposed charges. Sales tax is 9.25% in my county, so that’s about $1950. Over the phone they rattled off the other charges. One or two of the smaller ones sounded legitimate, but most of that $4470 seemed to be for optional features that weren’t automatically included in the 2021 Premier. (I remember something about door guards)

Though the mileage was low, if it hadn’t been for the boldly advertised price of $16,986 I wouldn’t have bothered inquiring

 

[knoepler]

When I was between Bolts I drove a 2022 Kona - a better car in a lot of ways - for a year. One of the reasons that I was eager to get back to a Bolt was that a lot of my driving is on mountain roads, where the Bolt’s size, “sportiness,” and excellent sight lines make a real difference

 

[knoepler]

Overall, there wasn't anything intrinsically wrong with the Corvair. The problem was the air-cooled engine was an engineering dead-end, at least for the market demographic. GM's testing showed there wasn't a cost-effective way to correct the cooling issue in higher horsepower, sporty applications. It likely would have taken a conventional liquid coolant system, and that would have been pricey to develop. So, they just let it die.

Ironically, the Vega did worse with a woefully inadequate cooling system. Combined with non-lined cylinder walls in an aluminum engine, the Vega quickly developed a reputation for engine failures.

My uncle, who did most of the work on his fleet of Darts and Valiants himself, called it the Oy Vega

 

[rudiger]

That’s a good question. You’ll be shocked - shocked! to hear that I couldn’t get them to send me an itemized list of proposed charges. Sales tax is 9.25% in my county, so that’s about $1950. Over the phone they rattled off the other charges. One or two of the smaller ones sounded legitimate, but most of that $4470 seemed to be for optional features that weren’t automatically included in the 2021 Premier. (I remember something about door guards)

Though the mileage was low, if it hadn’t been for the boldly advertised price of $16,986 I wouldn’t have bothered inquiring

Bait and switch. I can't believe there are people who actually fall for it, but it must still work since they keep doing it. I guess they just play the odds that, out of a hundred people, they'll find one will fall prey to it.

 

[GregBrew]

That's why they're unpopularly called "car stealerships".

 

[Islander]

Yeah, I had one. I had to replace the short block with one that had iron cylinder sleeves. Way back when I could bend over a fender or crawl under a car without needing a ton of Advil when I finished.

Rolled mine over in the late '60s. Not only were I and my two passengers unharmed, Vic, who was riding shotgun, had his previously displaced shoulder popped back into place. The Corvair was totaled, of course.