Eh, once inventory gets easier, dealers who can offer instant gratification will clean the clocks of dealers who make you order and wait. And if dealers order too much, deals will be had. I don’t think they can sustain their current advantageous position over the long term, unless the manufacturers intentionally choke supply.

 

We are seeing the Hyundai Kona dropping below MSRP here in the Seattle area. When the Bolt supply equals or exceeds the demand, they will sell for MSRP or below.

 

Kona EV or are you including ICE versions?

As for dropping below MSRP, well that's not surprising given that HyunKia BEVs suddenly became ineligible for any Federal tax credit starting ~Aug 16, 2022. That puts them at a price disadvantage vs. other cars that do qualify. Bolts became eligible again on 1/1/23, but the customer still needs to qualify (e.g. not over income cap).

 

He says the current admin and their policies have made all this possible.
Also there's no consumer outcry therefore no Congressional oversight.

Gosh, and all this time I could swear that dealers added profit above MSRP long before Biden came to office.
Glad to know it's all Biden's fault.
Think maybe Hillary mentioned this in her emails?
What does QAnon have to say about this?

 

Was he talking about the president or maybe GM's administration?

 

Hummm, evidently I took him to mean the current administration as being the Biden administration.
I don't normally think of the President of a company in the terms, Administration and Policies
Maybe NickSP will speak up.

 

Until production ramps up, there will be theories about prrice gouging. People will blame their favorite target. It couldn't just be that the industry badly underestimated demand, and now they are catching up? To straightforward?

 

Can't call it price gouging though -- it's a luxury good with a known supply and demand curve. Actual price gouging is illegal and hit very hard by authorities once discovered. This is generally known to be core essentials: food, water, medicine during emergency or disaster times.

There's no instance where someone can legit say "I need a Bolt at MSRP or me and my family will die" This same price craziness happens with high demand shoes, GPUs, clothes. Nobody is happy to pay over sticker but that's the world we live in for now. I had to pay $700 over for mine, which is nothing compared to some of the outlandish crap some dealers are pulling. Just like everyone else I wasn't happy about it, but I understood. Crunched the numbers and even at an inflated price it was still worth it for the reliability and long term savings .

 

Need more conspiracy theories, straightforward is too easy.

 

Dealer markups are here to stay as long as the general public continues to agree to pay them. We have shown the dealerships we are ok with the practice. If enough people refused to pay these money grabs and cars sat on lots the practice would end. I understand some people need to purchase a newer reliable car for transportation. For a lot of us the vehicle we currently have would be just fine. For us it was more of a want. Wanted to get a more practical car that meets our current needs. We were not willing to pay any additional dealer markups and made that clear to dealers as we shopped online. If they said they have ADMs we passed. We were lucky to find a dealer that had an EUV in stock and confirmed price before we went to the dealership. They were even 500.00 below MRSP and accepted the Costco 500.00 rebate and didn't charge for tint. We didn't wait till 2023 as the tax rebates wouldn't really apply for us. Also the discounted Arizona EV registration fees ended in 2023 so we will be saving a few dollars there too.
We were fully prepared to walk away from the dealer if they tried and last minute add on BS. They didn't so we went ahead and bought the EUV.

 

Yeah, I don't know why they'd go back, unless people really stop buying cars. I'm part owner of a brewery. Let's say, and I'm just pulling numbers out of thin air, it costs $4 to make a pint of beer that I normally sell for $6. I make $2 on every pint. I sell 10,000 pints a month and make $20,000 profit. Now, let's say I raise the price to $9/pint. Half of my customers stop buying my beer. However, I'm selling 5,000 pints at a $5/pint profit, so I'm making $25,000 now. Not to mention that I only need half the staff, I only have to brew half as much beer, I can have shorter hours and therefore less HVAC, etc. Also, I have fewer customers to complain and take up my staff's time. Which do you think I'm going to go for? I don't blame them if it works. I hate it... but I don't blame them.

 

I guess it depends, do you want to make $25K this month and maybe a few more or would you rather make $20K reliably every month because you are building a wider customer base that will return to drink your reasonably priced beer?

Getting back to Bolts, I got mine in September, I have a few friends who have bought them recently, and none of us has been subjected to price gouging, we all basically paid the published retail price. We all had to wait a few months. I think that business model is here to stay, at least with successful, in demand cars.

Another thing that I was surprised by recently was the seemingly low price on the new ultium platform lower models. It looks like the equinox is going to start at around $30K. Good for Chevy if that's true.

 

Yes you have a point ^^^^ there but where do you stop. Just make two pints and sell them for 12500. You only need two customers, no staff and 3 hours work then. How do you know at what price they will keep coming back? How many and for how long are they going to be OK with your price increase? It's complicated for sure.
In the crazy times we've all been through we have seen hugh price increases for a lot of things. Supply and demand are still out of balance but I think they are starting to normalize as demand declines. Business is slowing and layoffs are happening. I don't think dealers will be able to get away with ADM for too much longer. With the internet you should be able to find dealerships that aren't adding ADM before you even step into one. If you can't find one and the car is just a want and not a need I would suggest waiting them out. If we all did this ADM would end a lot sooner.

 

Yes you have a point ^^^^ there but where do you stop. Just make two pints and sell them for 12500. You only need two customers, no staff and 3 hours work then. How do you know at what price they will keep coming back? How many and for how long are they going to be OK with your price increase? It's complicated for sure.

You have a fascinating theory of pubs.

You're assuming your two customers are going to your pub to drink beer. The two of them can do that just as well at the home of either of them.

People don't go to pubs to drink beer, any more than people of a few centuries ago went to coffee houses to drink coffee.

 

IMO the amrkups are not hear to stay.Once the production is at normal, they will subside and things will go back to "normal", to some degree. I have a EUV coming in in 2 weeks, at MSRP (stiil get to use $1500 in incentives too, and then the tax credits), and the VW dealer called a month ago letting me know they had a few ID.4s for sale, no markup.

 

The only constant, is change.

 

Pretty sure my local dealer is selling bolts at MSRP. Funny thing they had a 22 used with a higher sticker on it than the 23 they just got in and turned over. Pretty much selling as they hit the lot or on the way to the dealer. I see gm started offering 1.9 percent for 72 months on truck. I think we are near the end

 

Like my Econ 101 professor always said: "Demand and supply, they always apply. Supply and demand, yeah man."

 

Supply and demand works both ways. I don’t remember people complaining when they were getting $15k discounts off of Bolts, refusing to take the discount, and insisting on paying MSRP.

 

I'm already seeing the ADM decreasing, if not completely going away, on some brands and models. In the end it's always going to come down to availability and the demand for a specific model. It takes a bit of effort, but it's now possible again to find dealers with no ADM.

 

VW says with the American plant coming online they have no need to pre order any more by end of first quarter. That's why they quit taking orders. I notice every dealer I drive by has 2 in stock. One outside plated. 1 inside show room. I think they are getting ready for a push. That said between vw having plant online,Tesla dropping prices, dodge also discounting pick ups. The days of heavy Adm will be over by third quarter if you can wait it out

 

Yeah, you can say “supply and demand”… but the companies we are dealing with control the supply. Same reason oil companies have thousands of land leases that they aren’t drilling on. Why spend the time and money to increase supply and bring your own price down when people are still buying the product at an inflated price?

I’m not saying it won’t normalize… but it’ll happen when it makes more sense for the car companies to bring supply up and prices back down. It won’t happen out of the kindness of their hearts.

 

When I bought my new 2023 Bolt EV, I found one on the lot in Dearborn, MI. I paid the MSRP price, no markup and no wait. The price I paid was the same price as several 2019 Bolts were selling for, including one with 50k miles and another with an accident in it's history. I realize that the price drop GM gave was responsible in part to this situation, but the dealers with the 2019 cars were disbelieving that I could get a brand new car for the same price. It did require a little road trip, but it was well worth it! So not all dealers are doing the 'markup' game.

 

We just printed $6.2 trillion of new money, a 40 percent increase, between February 2020 and February 2022 and we're surprised demand for most goods is temporarily exceeding supply? That we're experiencing inflation? "I am shocked, shocked to find that gambling is going on in here."

jack viens

 

We just printed $6.2 trillion of new money, a 40 percent increase, between February 2020 and February 2022 and…..we're experiencing inflation?

“don’T rump” giving money to too rich people was bad, also……& that was on purpose. At least, the US gov’t is repairing our decades long neglected infrastructure.

 

When I called the dealer at the end of Dec, they said no markups, then I went in on the 1st of January, and guess what, oh sorry the manager decided we'll be marking them up $1000. I was kind of annoyed, but I had the costco coupon and I also worked at a university and got another $500 off so it evened out. I bought it because I didn't want to order one somewhere else not knowing when it would be ready. When Chevy emailed me a survey, I gave them my input. It wasn't good. I also told them with **** like this, Tesla will win unless Chevy will sell directly to the consumer.

 

I wanted a '23 Bolt but wasn't going to pay a markup. Last March my son needed a new car and wanted an Impreza (which I drove at the time). Luckily found one at the local dealership "in transit" without a markup with color/options he liked. Put a deposit on it but paid MSRP (which I'm not used to doing, I like to haggle ). One dealership was charging $6k markup.

In December I found a Chevy dealer with a Bolt in the color/trim/package I wanted, 200 miles away, but no markup listed. So made a deal to put a deposit on it, if they sold it in December, I get the deposit back, otherwise I buy in January to qualify for the Fed tax credit.
Then after xmas they put a $2500 markup on the two Bolts they had. I contacted my salesman, told him i was retired/on fixed income and couldn't afford a markup, and that there wasn;t one when I put the deposit on it. He 'went to bat" for me, got them to resind the markup but I had to buy by Jan 3rd for it to count for their 2022 sales. Agreed to that.

After buying it I checked the dealer site again, markup was now $5000 and they sold the other one like mine. And most dealerships either have a markup, or say "contact dealer" for final price.

In the end, its supply & demand .. right now with being able to get the full Fed tax Credit until they finalize the battery requirements in March .. even bigger demand than just the limits removed for how many cars sold.

 

Open-market economics.

 

I think Elon panicking and lowering price started a trend here and in China. Just got spammed by Sondor and Segway 3-4 times each this morning. I then unsubscribed from their mailing list.

Not everyone has cash on hand to buy cars. I am hearing banks are more reluctant to loan now, that will take care of the demand side. Not sure you can reduce supply unless you idle your plants, sit on your hands, and wait for stock price to drop due to operating losses.

 

Tesla cutting prices should theoretically help with the markups. I know the premier+ Sun/ sound I have is 8-9k cheaper than the base 3. But if my dealer would add a 3-5k markup, that difference is significantly less. I don’t want a 3 really, but it’s probably a better value for a few K more, in terms of range and charge speed, as well as resale, if one considers that markup is not recoupable on resale/trade-in. I know I’ll be mentioning this option if my dealer tries any shenanigans.

 

Demand is already softening. Anybody who didn't have to have a new car right now, should be waiting. Heck, if you order one now and get it in May you might be paying below MSRP. Dealers are scum! They will get their comeuppance when manufacturers remove them from the sales equation. Ford is already working on this, and the pure EV brands are never going to sell at dealers.

 

I am not taking up for dealers, but Ford is not doing away with dealers. They are letting them decide which of three dealer models they want.
Traditional dealer, no EV's for now.
E-Ford - full EV line. Cars are orders online and shipped the the dealers service center. A lot like the Tesla model
And last truck dealers.
Or at least thats the 3 models as I understood them.

 

Markups are Evil, but not universal. I picked up my Bolt EUV Premier about 6 hours ago. Bought it at MSRP and got $1,000 more on my trade-in than a couple of Kia dealers were offering me on a much more expensive car.