I would say we are still early in the game of EV's and EV charging, I'm sure when gas first sold to the public there were many cheats who rigged the sales.

 

I think there are still some "inaccurate" pumps around. Pre-Bolt, there was a local gas station where I could consistently put an extra gallon into my Cruze which usually took about 12 gallons from the 1/4 tank mark. Needless to say, I didn't got there often. This difference disappeared when they switched to new pumps.

Based on stickers on pumps, it seems like they aren't inspected as often as they used to be. It makes one wonder.

I love never visiting gas stations. It was always an experience that just drained a bit of joy from life.

Ron

 

East and westbound chargers at Lee Service Plaza show up for me in plugshare.

 

Fast chargers should show accumulated cost of charging on the screen, just like gas pumps do, and that info should be available before a driver plugs in. That would help bust the prejudice I've seen that EV drivers are benefiting at others' expense.

...not to mention that it's something that the purchaser should be told.

 

I drove from Central New Hampshire to Poughkeepsie last weekend (260 miles), charging at the Lee service plaza fast charger on the Mass turnpike. I had planned to slow charge over the weekend, but my brother's house has an ancient, ungrounded electrical system. We found one three-prong outlet in his garage, but the stock charger lit the red "No way, Jose" LED when we plugged in.

My impression of the fast-charge process--certainly EVgo's implementation--is that it could stand some refinement:

1) The DC Fast chargers at the Lee Service Plaza on the turnpike (both directions) are EVgo branded, but they do not show up in the EVgo app (PlugShare ftw). The support person I contacted seemed very confused by my pointing this out.

2) The fast chargers were 100 amp. It took over an hour to bring the car from 10% to 80% charge. The Bolt told me how long before it would get to 80%, but not the charger. Observed rate seemed to be roughly 1%/minute up to 70%, which is about what I've seen on graphs posted here.

3) The charger shut off after an hour. There was nothing that indicated it would do this.

4) I fielded questions about the car and about the charging process from a number of people. The most common question was about cost of charging, with the assumption that it was free. Fast chargers should show accumulated cost of charging on the screen, just like gas pumps do, and that info should be available before a driver plugs in. That would help bust the prejudice I've seen that EV drivers are benefiting at others' expense.

5) When I returned, my wife asked how I knew the machine had delivered the energy it said it did. It was confirmed by the Bolt, of course, but it does make me think that fast chargers and public L2 chargers should be subject to some sort of state weights and measures inspection.

Overall the trip went smoothly, but it will be tough not to take the minivan on future trips. An hour's charge for three of driving is just too long for my tastes, and EVgo at least doesn't fully have their act together.

I charged at an EVgo in Murrieta, CA last week, using the RFID wallet card. The session did not show up in my app usage history. Bummer, because at the time I didn't note any of the numbers on the displays, "knowing" that all that info would be available through the app. Boy, was I wrong.

 

[QUOTE

I love never visiting gas stations. It was always an experience that just drained a bit of joy from life.

Ron[/QUOTE]


If it wasn't for the lawn tractor and my Miata I wouldn't need to stop for gas at all myself.



The Miata getting close its just below the half, I may have to stop by the end of June, the weather hasn't been nice enough to enjoy the car anyway.

 

[QUOTE

I love never visiting gas stations. It was always an experience that just drained a bit of joy from life.

Ron

If it wasn't for the lawn tractor and my Miata I wouldn't need to stop for gas at all myself.



The Miata getting close its just below the half, I may have to stop by the end of June, the weather hasn't been nice enough to enjoy the car anyway.[/QUOTE]


One of my big concerns with my ICE toy (an S2000) is the gas going bad over time. Well, darn it, I simply must go for an extended top-down cruise again. The horror!

 

I drove from Central New Hampshire to Poughkeepsie last weekend (260 miles), charging at the Lee service plaza fast charger on the Mass turnpike. I had planned to slow charge over the weekend, but my brother's house has an ancient, ungrounded electrical system. We found one three-prong outlet in his garage, but the stock charger lit the red "No way, Jose" LED when we plugged in.

Arguably, your brother ought to have sensible wiring in his house. It's 2018 not 1968; lack of proper grounding is a problem for all kinds of things.

Although rewiring his house might be out of the question, for the garage outlet, you might have been able to fix it relatively inexpensively. Or you could just pick up a cheap cheater plug and ground that to a nearby copper pipe.

Overall the trip went smoothly, but it will be tough not to take the minivan on future trips. An hour's charge for three of driving is just too long for my tastes, and EVgo at least doesn't fully have their act together.

I hear you, but it's not quite as bad as you make it sound. In some ways it's better (and in some it's worse).

Chevy's somewhat idealized numbers (“up to 160 miles in an hour”) reflect regaining 67% SOC in a hour. Roughly speaking, in an ideal scenario, you can drive for about three hours / 180 miles / 100-10% = 90% SOC, then stop for an hour and a bit to charge, and then drive for another two hours / 135 miles / 80-10 = 70% SOC. So one charging stop in five hours driving isn't so bad, especially if the charging location is somewhere you'd enjoy spending an hour (e.g., nice restaurant).

You have to be okay with taking six hours to do a 315 mile trip that someone who exceeds the speed limit and drives without stopping at 80 mph could do in about four hours though.

The real pain point comes when you have to drive more than 315 miles. You then have an extra hour of charging for every two extra hours of driving.

Without any good infrastructure en route, a 200 mile journey in a Bolt can be fun, with no worries about finding chargers, just destination charging. When there is good charging infrastructure (which isn't yet true in many places), a journey of about 315 miles in a Bolt could be fun, too, especially if you have something to see/do while the car charges. If the stars align and the infrastructure is good, a 450 mile journey might be okay with the right kind of adventure spirit to spend 9 hours traveling to your destination. Beyond that, it's probably going to feel like far too much of a slog.

FWIW, I've now reach a point where driving hundreds of miles without stopping isn't as much fun as it used to be. I've done a good number of 600-mile road trips, but I'm not super-eager for more. So for me, the question is whether I'll even be doing any 315 mile trips, not whether I want to do any 450-mile ones.

 

You have to be okay with taking six hours to do a 315 mile trip that someone who exceeds the speed limit and drives without stopping at 80 mph could do in about four hours though.

The key to long distance driving in an EV is to be mellow and have a flexible schedule.

 

Agree with all the above, but then that rationale takes EVs out of the practical and back into the toy realm. If I want a leisurely cross country trip, I might take one of my Studebakers or the Sunbeam Tiger or a motorcycle.

We can't have it both ways; most of the threads here are trying to convince the great unwashed EVs are for here and now daily use; for true, as long as we specify local. Then, we flip-flop about how they really aren't yet practical for cross-country but getting there slowly and inconveniently is the real fun of EV use. Both are true, but contradictory?

jack vines

 

We can't have it both ways; most of the threads here are trying to convince the great unwashed EVs are for here and now daily use; for true, as long as we specify local. Then, we flip-flop about how they really aren't yet practical for cross-country but getting there slowly and inconveniently is the real fun of EV use. Both are true, but contradictory?

I guess the question goes like this: Look around the vehicles on the street around you. For each one, has it ever been driven on a 315 mile (or 450 mile) road trip of the kind we're envisioning, and for those that have did they go on one this year?

I was chatting to someone the other day who was about take a vacation involved an almost eight hour drive of 450 miles. I asked if they were driving her car (which I think was a Camry). No, they were driving a bunch of people and lots of stuff, so they were heading up in her father-in-law's pickup truck.

For now, arguably the question isn't whether EVs can replace 100% of the vehicles on the road, it's a question of whether they can be 5%, 10%, 25% or maybe 50% of all vehicles. Also, EVs matter much more in large metropolitan areas where there are lots of cars and lots of pollution; in those places it is reasonable and helpful to get more people in EVs.

That said, I think the evidence from Tesla does suggest that people are willing to drive EVs long distances and use charging networks despite the inconvenience. How many people will put up with the compromises involved and drive EVs long distances is an open question. I think it's one reason why we had to wait for Electrify America to come into being—EVgo and friends didn't see freeway-based charging as a sure thing.

As I said in my post, I think many people will be fine with stopping to charge once, especially if it's a trip they do rarely. But super-long EV trips are too painful for most people. But I also suspect that super-long ICE trips trips are also too painful for many people.