240 only uses the L1 and L2 (black and red wire) and the ground, neutral is not used. So you need to connect L1, L2 then ground to that block with the green screw.

 

If you have to ask this kind of question, perhaps you are not the right person to install the EVSE; there are licensed electricians who know this stuff.

 

Thanks p7wang. My understanding is that the 14-50 requires a neutral?

 

neutral is used for 120v operation. Not used in 240v application.

 

You’re welcome. Neutral and ground are kept electrically separate until they are bonded at the main breaker panel. Neutral is there as a current carrying wire whereas the ground wire is a safety device that carries current only during fault conditions.

Ah, right- I believe this also applies to keeping the ground and neutral separate in a subpanel.

FYI, a case where a 14-50 outlet uses the neutral is with a 240 volt, 50 amp RV hookup, because there are 120 volt devices in the RV. And while the Bolt does not need the neutral for 240 volt charging, it is possible that somebody’s EVSE design could possibly use it for control circuitry.

That's exactly what they said when I described the scope of work and pulled the permit- why not add the neutral for future versatility.

Your help is very much appreciated, BehindBars- Cheers!

 

I'm wondering how the neutrals are supposed to be connected.

One of the disconnects for my solar has the neutral just passing through without connecting to anything:

 

Why a disconnect? If you pulled a permit you'll find out how it has to be wired unless your city really sucks.

 

I described my reasoning for a disconnect in another post, but I'm re-evaluating.

Hah- the city would not in fact tell me how to wire it. I told them what I wanted to do, they said hook everything up and call for an inspection.

 

Good to know, thanks. I'll rethink it. It's not required by code, but I'll be taking the charger with me as I have free access to a 14-50 at a jobsite and I'd rather not have my 14-50 energized 24/7, especially since nobody's home during the day. I could flip the breaker, but I thought that might be sub-optimal as well.

If you are regularly connecting and disconnecting a NEMA 14-50 plug (not recommended by the way), definitely go with a Hubble or Bryant heavy-duty receptacle. Lots of stories of melted inferior outlets.

Probably better to buy another EVSE for work when you need it.

 

Id use a 50A AC disconnect.
You have to follow owners manual and code for proper installation.
An outlet needs all wires.

 

Thanks all for the feedback. I've got a Hubble 14-50 but had no idea that a disconnect could be problematic, nor that regularly connecting/disconnecting a 14-50 could an issue. The 4 wires have already been run to the disconnect location, but now I'm reconsidering my plan. I really appreciate the help on this.

 

Thanks all for the feedback. I've got a Hubble 14-50 but had no idea that a disconnect could be problematic, nor that regularly connecting/disconnecting a 14-50 could an issue. The 4 wires have already been run to the disconnect location, but now I'm reconsidering my plan.

I don't think anyone is insinuating the turning off and on power to the 14-50 receptacle is a problem, it's the regular plugging and unplugging a 14-50P into the receptacle that can be problematic from wear and tear on the contacts in the slots inside the receptacle.

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

 

After the last Bolt was totaled, I figured we would be single-car with the Olde Prius for a while so I flipped the breaker and unplugged the EVSE (belt & suspenders ). Should be little parasitic draw from an EVSE other than keeping the indicator light on (it's a totally dumb one), but a watt here and a watt there... When in use, it just stayed plugged in and if I was going to be gone for a long time like on a couple weeks' trip I'd just flip the breaker off. Rarely done.

The only separate disconnect I have is for the solar (there has to be a disconnect for that per code so the Fire Dept can positively shut it down if necessary). It's on continuously, and has never (at least in 5 years or so) appeared to have a problem. Probably just overspecced for the current it carries. Small system, about 20A, using microinverters, and before you ask yes, I did have one fail within a few years of installation, and after a certain amount of complaining and a longish wait (lost production from that panel for pretty much the whole summer that year) it was replaced under warranty: less than an hour on site once the installer got the part.

 

Thanks for sharing your experience. Sounds like I might be better off without a disconnect. I'm not concerned with parasitic draw, I just thought it might be marginally safer not to have the 14-50 energized 24/7 as 1) it's outside, not in a garage; 2) I was planning to take the EVSE with me a couple times a week; 3) I like the idea of having a disconnect right next to the 14-50 in case I needed to cut power to it in an emergency. Last year I helped a friend install a mini split with a disconnect, and it seemed to make sense to have one even though it was very close to the panel and breaker.

I was thinking that at worst the disconnect would be unnecessary, but maybe that's not the case if I have to be concerned with it melting, and the same goes for regularly unplugging from the 14-50. I believe it would pass inspection, as I've seen the same setup pass, but that's in a situation where the EVSE is always connected to the 14-50.

 

AC disconnect is under $20.

 

I went through the same thought process when I was going to DIY and some here had convinced me a 14-50 was the only way to go. Using anything less would risk triggering a nuclear reaction and destroying the planet. I had already priced out the quite expensive 14-50 setup.

Fortunately, our local utility gave us an ESVE and we paid $165 for the install. The licensed and bonded technician ran a flat three-wire to a 6-50 receptacle. The city inspector said "Yup; good to go." The materials cost was literally half as much as doing the 14-50.

When I asked about why the three-wire 6-50 was OK, why 4-wire 14-50 wasn't required, when so much conventional wisdom here insists it absolutely is, the inspector said, "The code is what the code is. The internet isn't."

jack vines

 

Yeah I paid about $20 for the disconnect, $48 for the Hubbell 14-50 and $15 for a metal box for the 14-50. It might be overkill, but it might provide flexibility down the line for other EVs/EVSEs. Got them at a local supply house, I could return if desired.

Understandable to go with a 6-50 if it suits your needs. I went with 14-50 as it's what I commonly see in my area, but I'm glad I found this forum and appreciate the feedback. Live and learn.

 

I have an A/C disconnect ahead of my 32 amp Clipper Creek EVSE. The disconnect is rated at 60 amps and gets barely warm after several hours of charging. The disconnect is actually the "main" in my detached garage, as the panel I bought didn't have a main breaker.

 

Good to know, thanks. I'm leaning towards installing it. Will also look into a Clipper Creek EVSE to keep in the car.

 

If one has a 120vac without N then it is a sneaky killer.

 

in regards to Andrei's unsafe work at MNL, there was also this comment at Off-Topic: Just had to share.. Again, those are things I didn't know.

 

I genuinely appreciate everyone's input. There's always more to learn, and I have no doubt that many people here have more knowledge and experience than me.

I'm not a complete novice with electrical though, having rewired my entire (albeit small) house, installed a couple of Tesla chargers for friends, etc.- all with permits.

Note too that my original post asked whether to connect the neutrals at the lugs next to the ground screw or wire nut them together. Of course I understood that they had to be connected.

Installing a 14-50 in a short run of PVC conduit is not only simple, but easy for an inspector to check to make sure it was done properly. The only part of the run that the inspector won't be able to see is the wiring inside the conduit- all the connections will be plainly visible.

Because of this, I feel confident in DIYing it. Thanks all.

 

I love pvc but you may also have to watch spacing. A 3/4" pvc can't hold as much as a 3/4" EMT. Easy to search internet for how to fill them with number of wires and such.

 

My understanding is that four #6 conductors are allowed in 3/4" PVC but I went with 1"- it makes everything easier.

 

I use the web to see various factors in a calculator.
1 inch should do assuming typical wire type and insulation.


To others

Only a loonie bin would wire an outlet missing wires. Anytime you have source and no return it invites death.

 

Only a loonie bin would wire an outlet missing wires. Anytime you have source and no return it invites death.

In some jurisdictions, it is allowed per code to leave out neutral on a receptacle labeled as EVSE-only.

Missing neutral is more hazardous to equipment than it is to personnel. It probably doesn't encompass an invitation for death any more than a working 120 volt outlet.

 

Not sure I've seen such a code in NEC. Where is that?

 

Sorry, didn't notice you have 60A switch. That's nice. Neutral continuous is correct.

 

not sure why you are using a disconnect switch.
If you want to switch the loads between that outlet and another item, there are devices that do that for you.

 

The disconnect is not set in stone, I'm open to not using one.

The purpose wouldn't be to switch loads. Maybe another way to look at it is, why are there disconnects next to HVAC units?

 

In this thread, haven't read anything about GFCI breaker being installed. NEC code requires it, but local jurisdiction could override. This is for shock protection at outlet, especially if you are constantly plugging/unplugging the EVSE.

But if you have a GCFI breaker, there is a possibility the EVSE won't play nice with it since most EVSE's do a test of the ground line using a small current. Should be low enough not to trigger the GFCI but sometimes it does, so you get nuisance trips.

 

Local code requires GFCI or AFCI breakers for all new work (added circuits) here. That was done for the new circuit I had run for my EVSE. Never had any issues with it. So it might be individual case-dependent or possibly an over-eager breaker.

 

Modern EVSE's have been updated to allow for the GFCI. Only old ones might trip.

Yes, a GFCI and maybe in future a combo A/GFCI can be required.

The problem is that people might be using or moving an EVSE more or it may have leaks in it that can cause an issue. That is why they require the GFCI in some places.

The EVSE has a GFCI that you can't test ever, it never goes bad and only protects between unit and car.

 

Modern EVSE's have been updated to allow for the GFCI. Only old ones might trip.

Yes, a GFCI and maybe in future a combo A/GFCI can be required.

The problem is that people might be using or moving an EVSE more or it may have leaks in it that can cause an issue. That is why they require the GFCI in some places.

The EVSE has a GFCI that you can't test ever, it never goes bad and only protects between unit and car.

you can put a disconnect BEFORE the 1450 or do it the way it is here - 50 amp breaker connects the EV circuit to 1450.

 

When I re-wired the house a few years ago it was per the 2020 NEC, so everything but the bathroom and exterior circuits have AFCI breakers. Went with GFCI receptacles for the bathroom for ease of resetting them when tripped, and GFCI breakers for the exterior because of previous issues with weather-resistant GFCI receptacles not holding up long-term.

Due to the feedback here, I'm now considering my setup a temporary one. Once I get the Bolt and know that it's going to work out, I'll hardwire the charger, and get an additional charger to leave in the car. My HVAC system is on its way out and will be replaced by mini-splits, so I can re-use the disconnect for that.

Can't overstate how much I appreciate the suggestions and guidance. When the consensus from people with more knowledge and experience than you differs from your plan, it's time to rethink the plan. Cheers!

 

When I re-wired the house a few years ago it was per the 2020 NEC, so everything but the bathroom and exterior circuits have AFCI breakers. Went with GFCI receptacles for the bathroom for ease of resetting them when tripped, and GFCI breakers for the exterior because of previous issues with weather-resistant GFCI receptacles not holding up long-term.

Due to the feedback here, I'm now considering my setup a temporary one. Once I get the Bolt and know that it's going to work out, I'll hardwire the charger, and get an additional charger to leave in the car. My HVAC system is on its way out and will be replaced by mini-splits, so I can re-use the disconnect for that.

Can't overstate how much I appreciate the suggestions and guidance. When the consensus from people with more knowledge and experience than you differs from your plan, it's time to rethink the plan. Cheers!

I would not use the disconnect from the HVAC unit. It's probably this style... jump to 4:20

 

If a disconnect has clean contacts and the lugs are properly torqued then it should handle rated loads. A 50A should hold 42A setting on evse.

 

All evse's induce nonlinear loads. That normally won't trip a GFCI.

GFCI is basically a differential amp that reads power between legs. If different then it assumes power leaking. Shouldn't really be called ground fault.

There are two current levels. The lowest is for where a human might be in contact.

 

All evse's induce nonlinear loads. That normally won't trip a GFCI..

Some EVSEs check the ground connection by deliberately bleeding some line AC current to ground. That might trip a GFCI breaker, but often does not. Some EVSEs use a high frequency signal for the test, and don't trip a GFCI. UL requires a ground check at startup.

Some of the trips are reported an hour or more into a charging session. I don't know if you are excluding a case where it is actually the car causing the trip from your statement.

Oregon allows a non-GFCI breaker to be installed if there are nuisance trips, overriding NEC.

Your contention that the EVSE won't trip a GFCI flies in the face of a Google search for EVSE GFCI nuisance trips.

ClipperCreek, Chargepoint, and JuiceBox all advise hardwiring for any jurisdiction that requires GFCI on a plug-in EVSE. JuiceBox has line in their plug-in installation guide "Advise not to use a GFCI breaker."