It would be great if the membership stores gave us free charging or discounted charging. However, they are membership stores, which means you have already decided to purchase there by paying a membership fee. You did not say you would spend one extra hour shopping at Costco or Sam's if they installed chargers. That's a difference.

You may argue that Costco sells gasoline. True, yet Costco has a mixed relationship with this operation. In their 2018 annual report they admit: We believe that our gasoline business draws members but it generally has a significantly lower gross margin percentage relative to our non-gasoline business. And this is for a service that pumps hundreds of gallons an hour at ~$3+ a gallon.

You will not get that sales volume with an EV station, and EV charging takes up space that could go to purchasing customers. (It also may be the reason Costco pulled their older AVCON chargers in 2011 from their California warehouses.)

Non-membership stores that do want extra customers are installing EV charging stations:

• IKEA does have relationships with BLINK and ChargePoint--The longer you are lost in an IKEA, the more FLYGG furniture you buy, or you eat more meatballs.
  
  
• WalMart is becoming the center for EA installations--It changes the perception of WalMart if you have Porsche Taycans parked in front...After paying for the Taycan, WalMart pricing does make sense.
  
  
• In the Northeast, Hannaford and Star Supermarkets have installed L2 and up to 125A DCFC simply to win customers. (In some areas they will tow if you do not shop at the market.)
  
  
• Microbreweries are jumping on the 'free L2 with patronage', at least in Massachusetts through Maine. Pay about $15, enjoy two artisan fuzzy IPA infused with Peruvian purple chiles and brewed with Cape Cod ocean water while noshing on fried Brussels sprout poutine, and your Bolt is topped off. (DUI charges are extra.)

The real desire from your post is that you would like to get about 12kWh of free electricity to top up your battery on a regular basis (typical L2 charger in two hours). There is nothing wrong with that, but it probably won't be at a Costco charging operation.

 

You will not get that sales volume with an EV station, and EV charging takes up space that could go to purchasing customers.

Yep, as an employee of a EV charging station equipment and network company made me aware of... That's the problem with dedicated spots for EV charging. Every one of those is one less space that could be used for a non-plugin vehicle customer. Retailers pay for every square foot. Having fewer spaces available for all vehicles could make a difference in a very crowded parking lot.

And, what's the ROI for a business? Will spending tens of thousands of dollars to setup stations bring any monetary return to the business?

 

Note: Ikea is with the Blink network and is very expensive.

Electric Vehicle Charging Time Calculator | Blink Charging

EV charging fees vary by station & are noted on the station screen, Blink Map, and Blink Mobile app. Click here to learn more about our EV charging fees.

www.blinkcharging.com

 

"Every one of those is one less space that could be used for a non-plugin vehicle customer."

So EV owners are not customers?!? I do not mean reserving half of the parking lot for EVs. Maybe just a dozen or two. In the next 2 years, we should see increasing adoption of EVs as more choices/models come out.

 

Gasoline stations everywhere have very slim margins. The money is in the overpriced junk food and drinks. Costco offers cheap gas because most everyone needs it, and they need it regularly (like once a week). That gives people an excuse to get a membership and buy everything at Costco.



EVs can park in non-EV designated spaces, but the opposite is not true. That was the point being made. There's no financial motivation for Costco to install chargers that I can think of.

 

I read that Costco loses $60 million dollars a year on their rotisserie chickens, as they sell 60 million of them and lose a dollar per chicken sold. They also lose money on their gasoline sales, but don't recall those figures. The reason they do so is to bring in customers who will be purchasing more items.

What I find amusing in the Costco parking lots are the parking stalls reserved for "EVs and Car Pool Vehicles" as if a family going shopping is not car-pooling.

 

Locally, both Costo and Sams discount their gasoline by 10% from the lowest outside... years ago it just matched. Looks like competition is heating up or increased desire to maintain membership.

 

Since Walmart is partnering with EVGo to put charge stations along the highways, it should be an easy sell to get them to put something at Sams. I kinda wish Pilot/Flying J would have already had charge stations installed. Enjoyed having them around on long trips.

 

Loves Truckstop on Hwy 99 South in California's Central valley had several EV chargers. It was the first one I used on a trip. I set it up, went inside, used restroom, ordered a subway sandwich and got a drink, went out and washed the cars windows, and was ready to roll.

 

I still go to Sam's Club after getting my Bolt. Used to fill up there all the time with my ICE vehicle. Only place I no longer visit anymore is Jiffy Lube.

 

If you are a Costco or Sams Club member, please ask people to push them for free L2 charging and discounted DC Fast Charging on site.

So, by this logic, all their ICE members should petition Costco/Sam's Club to offer free or discounted gasoline?

jack vines

 

Costco doesn't need to "attract" more customers by adding 3-4 EV Charging Stations to their parking lots which are already many times packed to capacity with ICE vehicles.

Where is the business upside for the merchant?

 

I would think the logic would be to be perceived as a forward looking company and stay ahead of the competition by offering something they don't (kind of like how wifi used to be a big differentiator in stores and hotels). Forward 20 years and free WiFi is pretty Ubiquitous. I hope we don't have to wait that long on chargers to grow out of their current "curiosity" status. Hopefully in the next 2-3 years every store , restaurant, hotel, laundromat will have them for fear of being perceived as outdated and behind the Times and behind their competition. Final point, it's funny to me to watch the best buy customers hopping out of their ICEs glaring at the charging station like it's some kind of UFO...

 

For any business, timing is everything. There's little point in adding chargers if only 1% of cars sold are EV. Then, people "refuel" at home, so there's hardly a need to charge at a store. The whole reason gas stations make sense at Costco is that 99% of vehicles need it regularly. The other thing is that selling gasoline at least breaks even on cost, which can't be said of charging infrastructure. So why would Costco offer something that would appeal to less than 1% of the population, which loses money, and which takes up valuable space?

I'd not install charging at my business even if somehow it could break even on price simply to avoid listening to angry EV owners upset at ICEd spots or broken chargers.

In 2-3 years we might be looking at 2% of vehicle sales being EV. Still not enough for a business to justify offering charging. Maybe in a decade when EV sales are 10% will it begin to make sense.

I expect plug-in hybrids to become more popular until batteries and infrastructure get significantly better.

 

I know this is an older thread, but I think the percentages you mention might vary dramatically based upon geographic location within the U.S. I live in the PNW & there are many more BEVs up here than prolly most anywhere else in the U.S. More than I've seen in my motorcycle trips around the states in the last few years.
Thankfully, there are three L2 chargers on the Univ. campus where I work... and one of them is free (for now). They're not always full, but crowded, even the pay-to-charge spots.
We goto Costco about 2 times a month, regardless of buying fuel. We also still have two ICE vehicles (AWD Crosstrek & a smart car) & only use the Bolt EV for daily commuting.

 

Gasoline is a commodity, and as such, it's highly competitive and tends to be low profit margin.

Vehicles will trend towards a commodity, and I expect this to result in prices coming down (or features increasing) and industry consolidation.

 

As I'm always saying in regards to anecdotes (mine included); they're practically worthless.

Petrol stations are in decline, and that's an indication that the market is saturated and competition is driving margins towards zero. That's a feature of free markets, that they seek zero margin by bringing in new players when profits are strong, and pushing some players out when profits disappear. There can be examples of fantastic profits or fantastic losses by individual stations, but the industry as a whole tends toward slim profits (as do all competitive and free markets). If the industry as a whole had huge profits, then more people would open petrol stations and an equilibrium in profitability would be reached again.

 

Here in central Virginia, we first started seeing mom and pop stations closing when the government started requiring them to deal with leaking in-ground tanks. Now we are seeing big discount chains, like Sheetz, replacing half a dozen smaller stations within a 15 mile radius. It is just like the chain dollar stores replacing local stores in every burg.

And the Sheetz that are located at big highways are getting EA chargers. Mom and pop shops will never be able to justify that.

Some of those mom and pop shops have just stopped selling gas and stick to beer, lottery tickets, junk food, and maybe a shelf of auto consumables.

 

Here in central Virginia, we first started seeing mom and pop stations closing when the government started requiring them to deal with leaking in-ground tanks. Now we are seeing big discount chains, like Sheetz, replacing half a dozen smaller stations within a 15 mile radius. It is just like the chain dollar stores replacing local stores in every burg.

And the Sheetz that are located at big highways are getting EA chargers. Mom and pop shops will never be able to justify that.

This may not always be true. I just did a run from the SF Bay area to Truckee, and while I did avail myself of the DCFC at a Whole Foods (NB) and a Wal Mart (SB), the most important one for me was an EVGo at a small convenience store in Kingvale. For really rural stretches, the mom/pop operations may be viable.

 

I saw the decline as well when the tanks had to be inspected. But there are more gas stations now than there were then in my area. It was cheaper to walk away from the property, let the bank deal with the leaky tank. It was done on purpose and many of the same people that allowed the bank to foreclose on the property ended up buying them back for pennies on the dollar.

 

Well, maybe they can team up with Volta.

Volta Charging Introduces Free DC Fast Charging Service

Volta Charging, as promised earlier this year, is introducing in the U.S. free DC fast charging service with 50 and 100 kW chargers.

insideevs.com

 

Chargepoint info on a free dual-port 2 charger at a local outdoor mall. No idea where the folks go while charging, but given busy times around lunch time, maybe there to eat lunch.

Hopefully grocery stores and department stores catch on. This would be very useful for people living in apartments and condos and perhaps have no "at home" access to charging.

 

None of my Costco's, even the new one has EVSE on premise. None of the Sam's Club's either, though about an hour west of me there is a Walmart with L2 and reportedly another Walmart getting L2 in my area later this year. The closest Target with chargers is 2 hours south of me, different state. It's got both L3 and L2. Great install, saw it. Free chargers aren't sustainable so I'm ok with them being fee based. I'm not really convinced they will recoup any of their money, I'm reading on this forum that a lot of you sit in your cars and read a book while chasing that free charge.

 

I have lots of options of where to shop and buy crap. If one store has an EVSE and another doesn't guess which i pick?
Of course some people take advantage. So what? Lots of people with little kids hang out at the mall's with playgrounds and play all day at Fast Food playgrounds for the A/C during the hot summer months down here in the south. Not necessarily buying anything.

 

My country is pretty much based on entitlement so people taking advantage, running to the word 'free' or basically finding every reason to ***** about something they think is unfair is the norm here. It's just the norm now. There will always be someone who drives their Bolt to the mall to get a free charge and free air conditioning. I think it's the minority that will actually shape their shopping based on EVSE availability. I don't have a Target in my state with chargers. I have a WalMart that is adding a pod. Pretty much everything at one is at the other, but I'm still shopping at Target if need be. We have one movie theater next to a grocery story that has an EVSE. I'm going to pick my movie based on time and my schedule, not shape it to using the theater where I can park the Bolt at the grocery store and go to the theater next door. But there will be no shortage of people who do that. I had a friend who went on a 200 mile trip with his EV, he got up there, parked the car at an L2 charger (all they have in Green Bay, WI) and Uber'ed to his appointment because he needed that car to charge for 7 hours, ish. He Uber'ed the rest of the day before heading home. To him, the new norm.

 

Here's one take on Costco gas prices:

How can Costco undersell other gas stations by 23 cents a litre?

While other stations say their profit margins are tiny, Costco says it turns a profit selling cheaper gas.

bc.ctvnews.ca

And another:

Why Costco Wholesale Corporation Wants to Break Even on Retail Sales | The Motley Fool

Low prices are a win for customers and for the business.

www.fool.com

 

The property owner can definitely cut cost by offering only L2 A/C charging as DC chargers are more expensive.

 

EV Charging Infrastructure Is About To Become The Next Gold Rush

EV charging infrastructure is popping up all over the globe. Companies like McDonald's and grocery stores are getting involved. Soon, it will blow up.

insideevs.com

 

McDonald's has had Blink L2 EVSEs in front of their restaurants for a very long time. I've never seen one in use. Blink charges $.59 kWh here in NorCal. Most DCFC aren't that expensive. I think Insideevs.com couldn't be more wrong. BUT, I hope they are right.

 

Agreed, the Blink chargers at Ikea has ridiculous prices. It needs to be ChargePoint low cost (like 50 cents ah hour) or free. Otherwise, I'll charge at home.

Neighbor says going to the free lifetime Tesla Super Charger costs him way more money... it is located at a shopping center and his wife would spend hundreds of dollar shopping each time. haha

 

L2 charging should NOT be free. It shouldn't be outrageously expensive, either. But those L2 spots are great when you NEED a charge to get an extra 10 miles, and if they're free, they aren't available. L2s are also great for apartment dwellers - near me there's a Kohls across the street from a large apartment complex, and the 4 (paid) chargers are in use all night long. Ditto at the public library. And the city community center.

 

Noticed a few more DCFC on the Plugshare map. Seems a few now says Target (coming soon). Showing as free but description has pricing info.

Looks like good news for Walmart and Target shoppers.

 

If you want to lobby Costco to put in chargers, push DCFC at 50-150Kw. We’ll pay for the energy and shop to kill the 15-30 minutes we need to charge. It’s for travelers, not locals.

All free L2 charging at a store is a temporary perk and mostly useless for everyone. In the long term, L2 charging at a store will not be available once there are enough EVs on the road. One just can’t get enough energy in a typical shopping trip yo even make it worthwhile. Locals charge at home. Travelers want DCFC And a place to snack, rest, stretch their legs, or take a bathroom break.

I’d like to see an independent DCFC Rest plaza open up on some large interstate. Where? No idea until I have to get to some place on the other side. The business model won’t work until there are a lot of EVs traveling. Even Teslas puts their SCs near food and commerce and hasn’t done this because they know how occupied their own SC Stations are and they know they can’t make money doing it.

I can still dream.

 

Locals charge at home.

I wish. I rent a condo. No charging at home for me. I am entirely reliant on public charging--and am glad there is charging at work, even though I pay significantly for it.

I've cut my Costco runs to maybe once per month, vs. weekly when I would gas up there.