[grog]

Hard to say. Some customers would have ordered directly, which would give GM some data about customer preferences. And dealerships also play a role.

That's the problem with hypotheticals. They don't actually exist in reality. We don't actually know what total sales numbers would have been had GM manufactuered a different mix of EVs vs EUVs. Would they be exactly the same? A few thousand more? A few thousand less?

Agreed. But the question remains and the perception that is they'd changed the mix, they would have sold the mix, thus, making claims about "we sold more EUVs thus people want larger cars" still is very problematic.

This discussion reminds me of the Honda Fit. It's one of the most desired used cars. People are always sharing stories about how dealers want to buy them from customers coming in for service. Nobody can figure out why Honda doesn't make it anymore. Sure, profit margin probably wasn't the greatest but it got people into Hondas.

Interesting discussion thread on this that has some pertinence to our discussion:

 

[jimmarako]

Agreed. But the question remains and the perception that is they'd changed the mix, they would have sold the mix, thus, making claims about "we sold more EUVs thus people want larger cars" still is very problematic.

This discussion reminds me of the Honda Fit. It's one of the most desired used cars. People are always sharing stories about how dealers want to buy them from customers coming in for service. Nobody can figure out why Honda doesn't make it anymore. Sure, profit margin probably wasn't the greatest but it got people into Hondas.

Interesting discussion thread on this that has some pertinence to our discussion:

Looking up the sales on the Honda Fit they dropped off for the last 3 years in production. So Honda probably determined moving 30K cars (in the US) was too low of a number to continue on. Not sure what other cars Honda had at the time to were similar to the fit.

Honda Fit Sales Figures

Automotive Sales Data and Statistics

www.goodcarbadcar.net

 

[MichBolt]

...Sure, profit margin probably wasn't the greatest but it got people into Hondas...

Isn't that the bottom line? It's not like subcompact cars in general are a huge market in the US (8.2%):

2024 U.S Subcompact Car Sales Figures By Model (With Rankings)

Automotive Sales Data and Statistics

www.goodcarbadcar.net

 

[SpicyBolt]

It would seem the goodcarbadcar data says EUVs outsold EVs. And, I noticed by January 2024, very few of either model lingered unsold. So logic might say that, since GM sold nearly every Bolt manufactured for the model year, the relative sales of EV and EUV reflect the number of each manufactured, suggesting that GM decided which would be more plentiful, not the customer.

I gotta believe GM did market research, including focus groups when deciding to make the larger Bolt. And that also informed their design decisions. They probably used these results to help them determine the production ratio of little Bolt vs big Bolt too. So in this way the customer did decide.

I can't believe we are still quibbling over 6 inches.

 

[p7wang]

Hard to say. Some customers would have ordered directly, which would give GM some data about customer preferences. And dealerships also play a role.

That's the problem with hypotheticals. They don't actually exist in reality. We don't actually know what total sales numbers would have been had GM manufactuered a different mix of EVs vs EUVs. Would they be exactly the same? A few thousand more? A few thousand less?

True. When you dangle $1T in front of Elon, he gets very creative. Perhaps the annual bonus for the high earners in his companies will be a Cyber Truck. KEK

Elon Musk's SpaceX and xAI are buying Tesla's unsold Cybertrucks

Hundreds of Tesla Cybertrucks have been spotted being delivered Elon Musk’s private companies, SpaceX and xAI, as Tesla is having...

electrek.co

 

[knoepler]

Agreed. But the question remains and the perception that is they'd changed the mix, they would have sold the mix, thus, making claims about "we sold more EUVs thus people want larger cars" still is very problematic.

This discussion reminds me of the Honda Fit. It's one of the most desired used cars. People are always sharing stories about how dealers want to buy them from customers coming in for service. Nobody can figure out why Honda doesn't make it anymore. Sure, profit margin probably wasn't the greatest but it got people into Hondas.

Interesting discussion thread on this that has some pertinence to our discussion:

My last two ICE cars (2010-1017) were Fits. There's a good chance that I'd still be driving one if GM hadn't grabbed the EV bull by the horns and designed and built the Bolt. I have no idea whether GM's designers made a conscious decision to borrow, but some of the things that I liked best about the Fit's design were replicated in the OG Bolt.

 

[MichBolt]

I gotta believe GM did market research, including focus groups when deciding to make the larger Bolt. And that also informed their design decisions. They probably used these results to help them determine the production ratio of little Bolt vs big Bolt too. So in this way the customer did decide.

I can't believe we are still quibbling over 6 inches.

I also suspect there were differences in component / material supplies (e.g. aluminum vs steel) and profit margins between the 2 models, and those would have played a role as well.

 

[SpicyBolt]

I also suspect there were differences in component / material supplies (e.g. aluminum vs steel) and profit margins between the 2 models, and those would have played a role as well.

No doubt the EUV had a higher profit margin. And GM did "usher" buyers into the EUV by limiting several nice options to that version only. For example the rear camera mirror, formerly standard on the little Bolt Premier, required purchasing an EUV. And of course Super Cruise etc. etc.

We ended up in an EUV entirely due to the battery recall. We did a trade repurchase on our little 2021 LT, and being an MSRP swap, even though we only paid ~$25k, we opted for a totally loaded 2023 EUV Premier. We were unsure if we would receive a check for the MSRP difference, so that was the way to go. GM did end up mailing us a check for $2,400.

I'm about ready for another recall so they can swap us into a new Bolt.

 

[knoepler]

I gotta believe GM did market research, including focus groups when deciding to make the larger Bolt. And that also informed their design decisions. They probably used these results to help them determine the production ratio of little Bolt vs big Bolt too. So in this way the customer did decide.

I can't believe we are still quibbling over 6 inches.

You gotta problem with quibbling?
Part of the problem is that this is just the most recent example of a very old story, where a combination of (small) profit margins and a relatively small market have doomed even the best American small cars to either a limited run or morphing into a bloated version of the original. The smaller profit margins are a feature - that's partly why cars like the Bolt and Honda's Fit have been more affordable. (in 2010 I paid around $15k for a new Fit) but it does give the manufacturer a reason to be reluctant to make them. As for the size of the market, that's a little more complicated. The classic argument - and we saw this with the Bolt - is that American manufacturers and dealers don't know how to market small or innovative cars and aren't interested in learning - it's much easier to keep selling what you know how to sell. However, there's also plenty of evidence that the number of Americans who prefer smaller, simpler cars has always been limited.

 

[SpicyBolt]

You gotta problem with quibbling?
Part of the problem is that this is just the most recent example of a very old story, where a combination of (small) profit margins and a relatively small market have doomed even the best American small cars to either a limited run or morphing into a bloated version of the original. The smaller profit margins are a feature - that's partly why cars like the Bolt and Honda's Fit have been more affordable. (in 2010 I paid around $15k for a new Fit) but it does give the manufacturer a reason to be reluctant to make them. As for the size of the market, that's a little more complicated. The classic argument - and we saw this with the Bolt - is that American manufacturers and dealers don't know how to market small or innovative cars and aren't interested in learning - it's much easier to keep selling what you know how to sell. However, there's also plenty of evidence that the number of Americans who prefer smaller, simpler cars has always been limited.

Excellent points!

It's also like an arms race. Drivers in little cars look around and see themselves surrounded by monstrosities they can't see around or over. I bought a new 2001 Miata which I enjoyed for 5 wonderful years until a divorce ended that. I'd be afraid to drive around in a car that tiny these days.

 

[grog]

Isn't that the bottom line? It's not like subcompact cars in general are a huge market in the US (8.2%):

2024 U.S Subcompact Car Sales Figures By Model (With Rankings)

Automotive Sales Data and Statistics

www.goodcarbadcar.net

All so true. But, economically things have significantly changed over the last 5 years, one result is what I call "The Gentrification of Everything" meaning things are built and priced toward a certain demographic and cars have turned into exactly one of those things. The result is leaving large market segments ignored because of price.

And that's unfortunate because I see EVs as a paradigm shift in the automotive world and the more people that can afford one new, is a good thing. It's not unlike Ford's meta-thinking behind the Model T. It would appear that the used market will hafta fill that void not unlike how the used market is kinda doing that for new ICE cars which are also becoming pricier items.

 

[Toyotiac]

No doubt the EUV had a higher profit margin. And GM did "usher" buyers into the EUV by limiting several nice options to that version only. For example the rear camera mirror, formerly standard on the little Bolt Premier, required purchasing an EUV. And of course Super Cruise etc. etc.

We ended up in an EUV entirely due to the battery recall. We did a trade repurchase on our little 2021 LT, and being an MSRP swap, even though we only paid ~$25k, we opted for a totally loaded 2023 EUV Premier. We were unsure if we would receive a check for the MSRP difference, so that was the way to go. GM did end up mailing us a check for $2,400.

I'm about ready for another recall so they can swap us into a new Bolt.

Yes, another trade repurchase would be an interesting proposition, although I can’t imagine that happening. One possible scenario might be something like the guy with the ‘22 EUV who is 6 weeks into a battery wait and has just been told it will be another 6 months!

 

[bisco]

anyone know when they stopped making the ev? i ordered mid '23, and was told they weren't making anymore, only euv's.

 

[BehindBars]

anyone know when they stopped making the ev? i ordered mid '23, and was told they weren't making anymore, only euv's.

Same here. I also noticed Bolts arriving at dealers later in ‘23 were no longer colored, just grey scale. I guess they wanted to wind down production with play-It-safe stock that would sell.

 

[MKH]

Same here. I also noticed Bolts arriving at dealers later in ‘23 were no longer colored, just grey scale. I guess they wanted to wind down production with play-It-safe stock that would sell.

According to GM they stopped production of both the Bolt EV and EUV Dec. 20, 2023.

 

[bisco]

i wonder why they would only take euv orders mid year? maybe the ev line was full up.

 

[wgl4469]

Exciting to see the return of the Chevy Bolt. This will be a home run for Chevrolet. A proven, refined third gen Bolt. Possibly the cheapest USA EV available. My 2023 Bolt EUV, my third Bolt, is two years old, the right color and options. Other than faster DC charging, no incentive for me to consider a upgrade at this time. Looking forward to the actual release.

How big a deal is the heat pump? Here in Wisconsin, half of the year is cold.

 

[Left Coast Geek]

... I bought a new 2001 Miata which I enjoyed for 5 wonderful years until a divorce ended that. I'd be afraid to drive around in a car that tiny these days.

I'd love an electric Miata, even one with limited range like 100 miles... long as they kept the weight down, and maintained the crisp light handling...

 

[grog]

I'd love an electric Miata, even one with limited range like 100 miles... long as they kept the weight down, and maintained the crisp light handling...

I have a buddy who lives in Santa Fe. He's done some electric conversions over the years, one being an older Miata. He did this probably at least 10 years ago, maybe longer. I think it only has around a 60 mile range but then he's got old batteries in there.

The thing is a rocket and still handles like a Miata. Definitely a toy and not a regular-use vehicle.

His fulltime EV is a Mach-E.

 

[jimmarako]

I'd love an electric Miata, even one with limited range like 100 miles... long as they kept the weight down, and maintained the crisp light handling...

An electric Miata would be cool. But then the problems. Say it had 100 mile range. Worthless. A spirited afternoon drive would wipe that out. And the rural/remote places fun drives would happen are DCFC wastelands. So make it 200 miles. Better, but now a heavier more expensive car.
We can only hope that solid state batteries with their supposed 30-50% weight reduction happen soon.