[atc98092]

i would love to live somewhere where gas was $4.75 and electricity was 12 cents!

We also have a 10.5% sales tax, but fortunately no state income tax (as hard as they try to implement one). Cost of living is pretty high, especially within the Sound Transit Regional Tax Authority. Plus, this state adds more than $250 per year to our license tabs for an EV (my PHEV was about $225 extra). The last tabs I paid for my Bolt was over $650 for the year (I'm inside the RTA boundary, about $350 of that was just for the RTA).

 

[redpoint5]

Measure of subsidy should be per mile traveled, not BTU...

No link to something supporting your claim of banning EVs and renewables? Ready to apologize yet?

Subsidies shouldn't exist for the most part, because the only purpose is to manipulate free markets. Anyone in support of a subsidy is proclaiming superior knowledge and understanding to the market. It's a very communistic instinct.

 

[Eddiscgolfer]

and kwh prices keep going up, while gas prices are very stable

My experience is the exact opposite...My electric rate is fixed, but our gas prices in NE Ohio are VERY unstable, it can go up as much as .40 a gallon in a day for no reason....

 

[BMWEXPAT]

You guys think your costs are bad. I live in the Peoples Republic of California, Bay Area to be spacific.

Gas - 4.75+ per gallon
Electric Cost - .34-.40 per KWH - It's a tiered system depending on use. Not hard to get to top rates
Sales Tax -10.25 %
Annual Car registration fees based on value. 40 year old car still costs over $200. Newest just dropped to $600+
Saving grace is Prop 13 which limits property tax rate increases.
In spite of the one party socialist rule in California it's a great place to live, if you have the money. The weather and fantastic driving roads work for me.

I saw the freight train coming for electricity rates 15 years ago when I got a $750 bill for running our AC for several weeks straight durring a bad prolonged hot spell. Rates have doubled since then. 2012 Invested in a 23 panel solar system, that had a 5 year payback on my money. 3 years ago added a second 10 panel system as we were heading towards retirement in the next 2-3 years and an EV would make sense. Per my calculations adding that EV would be the rough equivalent of a 2nd AC system. Currently YTD PG&E owes me $475 for excess power produced. As I can control when and how much I want to use my gas cars I don't really care about the price of gas.

Overall retired life is good and if it changes we have options to relocate to somewhere better.

 

[BMWEXPAT]

the feds just banned a 6.2 GW solar project in Nevada by refusing to process the mandated EIR. This would have powered 2 million households. https://www.nytimes.com/2025/10/10/climate/nevada-solar-esmerelda7.html

You are correct, this project was killed due to current politics. It's on BLM land so Federal Govt. refused to lease the land. This would have been a massive project that would cover 185 acres of land upon completion. Would have cost the Govt. billions in subsides to the multiple private companies involved in construction.

There is nothing stopping the consortium of private companies from building this project elsewhere in Nevada. What would hold them back is the the financial aspects. Without subsidies project is not financially sound.

This is where elections matter. Current administration does not favor renewables where Federal subsidies are required to make the projects financially viable. Previous administration did everything possible to kill fossil fuel projects.

 

[grog]

Electric Cost - .34-.40 per KWH - It's a tiered system depending on use. Not hard to get to top rates

It's eye opening that's for sure. Here in Denver, offpeak winter KWH is 8 cents. We have some solar on our house, it provides maybe 33% of our needs. Our evil utility monopoly, Xcel, does everything in it's power to limit residential solar capacity so that nobody ever gets money back from producing more than they consume.

 

[Left Coast Geek]

Not to be critical but you paid way more than $1.

We hit 100% payback on our electric bill in about 3 years. Our power bill used to be around $500 per month 4 years ago, and from what i hear from neighbors would be 2X that today, instead its a minimum $20/month service charge.

If our EV didn't use our excess power, it would be pushed into PG&Es local grid, and not give us anything back. So, yeah, its free electricity.

 

[Left Coast Geek]

Note the Bolt EV is also one of the most efficient EVs in Miles/KWH ... After a 200 mile trip on Thursday, mine registered an average of 4.5 miles/kwh ... that calculator on NYT shows 5.0 miles/kwh as...

 

[Left Coast Geek]

we never get any money back, but net positive months accumulate all summer and cover the couple net negative months in the winter... last year I had an annual net of +1000% (I generated 10X more solar than I used).

 

[grog]

we never get any money back, but net positive months accumulate all summer and cover the couple net negative months in the winter... last year I had an annual net of +1000% (I generated 10X more solar than I used).

Our evil utility would never allow a house to have that kind of generation installed in the first place.

 

[bisco]

We also have a 10.5% sales tax, but fortunately no state income tax (as hard as they try to implement one). Cost of living is pretty high, especially within the Sound Transit Regional Tax Authority. Plus, this state adds more than $250 per year to our license tabs for an EV (my PHEV was about $225 extra). The last tabs I paid for my Bolt was over $650 for the year (I'm inside the RTA boundary, about $350 of that was just for the RTA).

i'm from massachusetts. cost of living whining does not impress me 😂

 

[bisco]

My experience is the exact opposite...My electric rate is fixed, but our gas prices in NE Ohio are VERY unstable, it can go up as much as .40 a gallon in a day for no reason....

but does it go down as well?

 

[bisco]

You guys think your costs are bad. I live in the Peoples Republic of California, Bay Area to be spacific.

Gas - 4.75+ per gallon
Electric Cost - .34-.40 per KWH - It's a tiered system depending on use. Not hard to get to top rates
Sales Tax -10.25 %
Annual Car registration fees based on value. 40 year old car still costs over $200. Newest just dropped to $600+
Saving grace is Prop 13 which limits property tax rate increases.
In spite of the one party socialist rule in California it's a great place to live, if you have the money. The weather and fantastic driving roads work for me.

I saw the freight train coming for electricity rates 15 years ago when I got a $750 bill for running our AC for several weeks straight durring a bad prolonged hot spell. Rates have doubled since then. 2012 Invested in a 23 panel solar system, that had a 5 year payback on my money. 3 years ago added a second 10 panel system as we were heading towards retirement in the next 2-3 years and an EV would make sense. Per my calculations adding that EV would be the rough equivalent of a 2nd AC system. Currently YTD PG&E owes me $475 for excess power produced. As I can control when and how much I want to use my gas cars I don't really care about the price of gas.

Overall retired life is good and if it changes we have options to relocate to somewhere better.

it's expensive to live in paradise. try year round miserable weather and very little picturesque scenery.

 

[Aaron R.]

My experience is the exact opposite...My electric rate is fixed, but our gas prices in NE Ohio are VERY unstable, it can go up as much as .40 a gallon in a day for no reason....

This is one of many of the advantages of EVs as I perceive it. Electric rates can go up of course, but this only happens once a year [and generally requires the approval of state regulators]. Gas prices can and do change at any time. One refinery fire or hurricane in the wrong place, and gas prices can drastically increase.

In my view, there is an advantage to stability in prices in the medium term. I know what driving my EV is going to cost me for the next several months [assuming I know roughly how many miles I'll be driving], but this is more up in the air if I'm driving a gas powered vehicle.

 

[Left Coast Geek]

Our evil utility would never allow a house to have that kind of generation installed in the first place.

The kit that p7wang posted Pardon Our Interruption... ... thats 12KW of 240VAC with 20KWH of LFP battery storage, and 7KW of solar to charge it. this is a standalone off grid system, mount the panels in a field or large yard, hook your L2 charger up to it and go to town.

 

[Aaron R.]

it's a great question. looking back about a hundred years, gas was 20 cents a gallon, and electricity was 5 cents a kwh.
now, gas is in the high 2 dollars around here, and kwh's are 40 cents and climbing steadily.
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As your post attests to, there is more geographic variation in electricity rates than in gas prices. If I'm not mistaken, 16 cents per kWh is what we pay during peak hours [and of course, I charge my Bolt during non peak hours and pay less than this].

In some ways, electricity is more localized in nature. Petroleum and refined gasoline pretty much comes from the same place [and is transported]. Electricity can be distributed from one place/state to another to some extent, but production is more local in nature. Moreover, maintaining a local infrastructure is a big factor in electricity costs. So, extreme weather events [and measures to mitigate potential damage/outages] have a big impact on rates. In other words electric rates are going to be higher in hurricane prone areas [and climate change is just making this worse].

 

[p7wang]

Electricity can be distributed from one place/state to another to some extent, but production is more local in nature.

Only for the Ex's in TX. For the rest of the country, it's at least regional. Imagine if we have a national grid. As they say, it always 5pm somewhere... well, it's always noon somewhere.

 

[Mangled Jargon]

My home and the City of Burlington's 1772 charging stations are 20¢/kW. Gas is about $3.20. Fast charging is usually around 56¢, which is what their blue bar seems to be. There is one DCFC run by Burlington's electric company that is also only 20¢!!
Their calculator tracks pretty well:

 

[Mangled Jargon]

Oil companies need no subsidies, of course. But Republicans LOVE Socialism, when they are transferring wealth of taxpayers to the already-wealthy!

"If you ever doubted the Republican love of the Free Market, a new report has found that Trump's economic law will give the oil and gas industry an additional $40 billion in new subsidies, Wired reports.
That $40 billion won't be paid out all at once, though. Instead, it works out to about $4 billion a year for the next decade. That's, of course, on top of the $30.8 billion in subsidies the oil and gas industry already receives. It's also "the largest single-year increase in subsidies we've seen in many years—at least since 2017," Collin Rees, the US program manager for Oil Change International."
–– Oil And Gas Industry To Get $40 Billion In New Subsidies From Republicans Because They Love The Free Market So Much

 

[pagrey]

We hit 100% payback on our electric bill in about 3 years. Our power bill used to be around $500 per month 4 years ago, and from what i hear from neighbors would be 2X that today, instead its a minimum $20/month service charge.

If our EV didn't use our excess power, it would be pushed into PG&Es local grid, and not give us anything back. So, yeah, its free electricity.

Wow, it's not free, you paid for the panels. That cost never goes away.