[mnl119]

Thanks all for the feedback. I've got a Hubble 14-50 but had no idea that a disconnect could be problematic, nor that regularly connecting/disconnecting a 14-50 could an issue. The 4 wires have already been run to the disconnect location, but now I'm reconsidering my plan.

I don't think anyone is insinuating the turning off and on power to the 14-50 receptacle is a problem, it's the regular plugging and unplugging a 14-50P into the receptacle that can be problematic from wear and tear on the contacts in the slots inside the receptacle.

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Electromojo]

After the last Bolt was totaled, I figured we would be single-car with the Olde Prius for a while so I flipped the breaker and unplugged the EVSE (belt & suspenders ). Should be little parasitic draw from an EVSE other than keeping the indicator light on (it's a totally dumb one), but a watt here and a watt there... When in use, it just stayed plugged in and if I was going to be gone for a long time like on a couple weeks' trip I'd just flip the breaker off. Rarely done.

The only separate disconnect I have is for the solar (there has to be a disconnect for that per code so the Fire Dept can positively shut it down if necessary). It's on continuously, and has never (at least in 5 years or so) appeared to have a problem. Probably just overspecced for the current it carries. Small system, about 20A, using microinverters, and before you ask yes, I did have one fail within a few years of installation, and after a certain amount of complaining and a longish wait (lost production from that panel for pretty much the whole summer that year) it was replaced under warranty: less than an hour on site once the installer got the part.

Thanks for sharing your experience. Sounds like I might be better off without a disconnect. I'm not concerned with parasitic draw, I just thought it might be marginally safer not to have the 14-50 energized 24/7 as 1) it's outside, not in a garage; 2) I was planning to take the EVSE with me a couple times a week; 3) I like the idea of having a disconnect right next to the 14-50 in case I needed to cut power to it in an emergency. Last year I helped a friend install a mini split with a disconnect, and it seemed to make sense to have one even though it was very close to the panel and breaker.

I was thinking that at worst the disconnect would be unnecessary, but maybe that's not the case if I have to be concerned with it melting, and the same goes for regularly unplugging from the 14-50. I believe it would pass inspection, as I've seen the same setup pass, but that's in a situation where the EVSE is always connected to the 14-50.

 

[Electromojo]

I don't think anyone is insinuating the turning off and on power to the 14-50 receptacle is a problem, it's the regular plugging and unplugging a 14-50P into the receptacle that can be problematic from wear and tear on the contacts in the slots inside the receptacle.

Someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

One potential issue with the disconnect that I thought was mentioned is that it could melt under continuous EV draw, and I thought someone linked to a thread about it but now I don't see it. Maybe I was hallucinating last night lol.

Re: plugging/unplugging from the 14-50, I'll definitely look into getting an additional EVSE to avoid doing that.

 

[jefro]

AC disconnect is under $20.

 

[Packard V8]

I went through the same thought process when I was going to DIY and some here had convinced me a 14-50 was the only way to go. Using anything less would risk triggering a nuclear reaction and destroying the planet. I had already priced out the quite expensive 14-50 setup.

Fortunately, our local utility gave us an ESVE and we paid $165 for the install. The licensed and bonded technician ran a flat three-wire to a 6-50 receptacle. The city inspector said "Yup; good to go." The materials cost was literally half as much as doing the 14-50.

When I asked about why the three-wire 6-50 was OK, why 4-wire 14-50 wasn't required, when so much conventional wisdom here insists it absolutely is, the inspector said, "The code is what the code is. The internet isn't."

jack vines

 

[Electromojo]

Yeah I paid about $20 for the disconnect, $48 for the Hubbell 14-50 and $15 for a metal box for the 14-50. It might be overkill, but it might provide flexibility down the line for other EVs/EVSEs. Got them at a local supply house, I could return if desired.

Understandable to go with a 6-50 if it suits your needs. I went with 14-50 as it's what I commonly see in my area, but I'm glad I found this forum and appreciate the feedback. Live and learn.

 

[jdunmyer]

I have an A/C disconnect ahead of my 32 amp Clipper Creek EVSE. The disconnect is rated at 60 amps and gets barely warm after several hours of charging. The disconnect is actually the "main" in my detached garage, as the panel I bought didn't have a main breaker.

 

[Electromojo]

I have an A/C disconnect ahead of my 32 amp Clipper Creek EVSE. The disconnect is rated at 60 amps and gets barely warm after several hours of charging. The disconnect is actually the "main" in my detached garage, as the panel I bought didn't have a main breaker.

Good to know, thanks. I'm leaning towards installing it. Will also look into a Clipper Creek EVSE to keep in the car.

 

[elasticmedia]

240 only uses the L1 and L2 (black and red wire) and the ground, neutral is not used. So you need to connect L1, L2 then ground to that block with the green screw.

If you have to ask this kind of question, perhaps you are not the right person to install the EVSE; there are licensed electricians who know this stuff.

 

[BehindBars]

If you have to ask this kind of question, perhaps you are not the right person to install the EVSE; there are licensed electricians who know this stuff.

On the other hand, asking the questions and doing the research is how a person learns to do things. I have never hired a carpenter, electrician, plumber, motorcycle mechanic, roofer, financial planner, appliance repair person, drywall finisher, etc. in my life. I learn to do things, and often do them better than the professionals because I care more about the long term outcome.

 

[ClarDold]

neutral is not used

I would agree that neutral is not needed by this particular plug-in EVSE, but someone using this NEMA 14-50 receptacle for some other device might damage an RV.

Neutral should pass through this disconnect switch to the receptacle.

Ground should pass through this disconnect switch to the receptacle, and also connect to the ground lug in this box.

 

[p7wang]

I would agree that neutral is not needed by this particular plug-in EVSE, but someone using this NEMA 14-50 receptacle for some other device might damage an RV.

Neutral should pass through this disconnect switch to the receptacle.

Ground should pass through this disconnect switch to the receptacle, and also connect to the ground lug in this box.

Really? So what happens when you wire a 120V with Line and Ground only... no neutral... does the 120v device get 'damaged'?

 

[ClarDold]

Disconnects are not designed for the continuous EV draw.

The disconnect in the picture with this post is okay for EV usage, and is required for high current wired EVSEs.

The one that is not suitable is the blade type.

GE 60 Amp 240-Volt Non-Fuse Metallic AC Disconnect TFN60RCP - The Home Depot

GE Non-Fuse Metallic AC Disconnect is designed to stop the power going to an air conditioning unit for safe working conditions.

www.homedepot.com

 

[cwerdna]

On the other hand, asking the questions and doing the research is how a person learns to do things. I have never hired a carpenter, electrician, plumber, motorcycle mechanic, roofer, financial planner, appliance repair person, drywall finisher, etc. in my life. I learn to do things, and often do them better than the professionals because I care more about the long term outcome.

Problem is, for electrical work beyond replacing something existing (e.g. failed light switches, outlets that have become too loose), you may not know what you don't know. I have very little knowledge of NEC (National Electrical Code) and what must be done to meet code and to be safe. Too bad many links at https://www.chevybolt.org/threads/honeymoon-is-over.39074/page-2#post-617959 are busted now because MyNissanLeaf has changed software at least once or twice since those posts were made. Hopefully, one can get an idea what that guy was doing wrong.

I still stand by my statement there of "I strongly would NOT recommend DIY for those who can't tell everything that's wrong there w/o having to look things up." I also am still not qualified and i've been driving BEVs since end of July 2013.

If you have to ask this kind of question, perhaps you are not the right person to install the EVSE; there are licensed electricians who know this stuff.

100% agree. I also cannot answer the OP's questions so again, I'm not qualified. There's too much I don't know.

 

[jefro]

If one has a 120vac without N then it is a sneaky killer.

 

[BehindBars]

I still stand by my statement there of "I strongly would NOT recommend DIY for those who can't tell everything that's wrong there w/o having to look things up." I also am still not qualified and i've been driving BEVs since end of July 2013.

If you don’t ask questions and learn, you wiil just have to assume the hired electrician does the work correctly. And, I have found instances where the electrical work was not correct or was substandard. Still, ignorance (and blind trust) is bliss. To each their own.

There are no electrical permits or inspections in my county. I am the one that issues final approval on my property.

 

[cwerdna]

If you don’t ask questions and learn, you wiil just have to assume the hired electrician does the work correctly. And, I have found instances where the electrical work was not correct or was substandard. Still, ignorance (and blind trust) is bliss. To each their own.

Of course the bolded part can happen, but the problem is, the OP can be doing a lot of stuff now that is unsafe and not realize it until either he fails inspection or something bad happens because the inspector missed it or it was to code, but marginal. Tom Moloughney has pointed out the latter at least once in his videos.

As I said, unless I have the guidance of a reputable licensed electrician telling me things I should do and checking my work, no way I'd embark on adding an outlet for EV charging on my own. There's too much I don't know. Look over that thread on MNL I pointed to. To me, if you can't identify everything that Andrei was doing wrong w/o looking things up (I cannot), that's a red flag.

 

[Kbecker]

If you don’t ask questions and learn, you wiil just have to assume the hired electrician does the work correctly. And, I have found instances where the electrical work was not correct or was substandard. Still, ignorance (and blind trust) is bliss. To each their own.

I am not an electrician, but I have cleaned up after electrician’s errors. Fortunately no fires. It’s good to know this stuff so you can determine whether it is being done right.

 

[p7wang]

Really? So what happens when you wire a 120V with Line and Ground only... no neutral... does the 120v device get 'damaged'?

OK, looks like it really depends on the appliance. I had a wire loose in one circuit breaker... the electrician failed to turn the screw to hold the wire. It worked and I did not know any different until the outlet stopped working and the night light stopped working. I put the wire back in place and screwed it in, everything worked again.

So the question of what happens when you connect the Live wire but there is nowhere for the electricity to go...

The Hidden Dangers: What Happens When the Neutral Wire Isn't Connected? - Sparky Frenzy

Without a connected neutral wire, electrical circuits become incomplete, leading to electrical imbalances, increased risks of electrical shocks, malfunctions in appliances and equipment, as well as overheating and fire hazards.

sparkyfrenzy.com

 

[cwerdna]

in regards to Andrei's unsafe work at MNL, there was also this comment at Off-Topic: Just had to share.. Again, those are things I didn't know.