That's Mustard cable is tiny. There's a whole thread about them overheating. Return it

 

That's Mustard cable is tiny.

I believe the skinny cable is the factory EVSE, not the aftermarket device.

16 AWG is insufficient for 12 amps in my opinion. For home wiring, most 15 amp circuits will use 14 gauge wire, while 12 gauge is used for 12 amps. 16 gauge is on the ragged edge for 12 amps, depending on cable length, along with the specific cable characteristics. My guess is GM calculated the minimum current and voltage the EVSE cable will see, and used the smallest cable that met specs. Like I said, it's on the edge, but likely acceptable (barely).

 

yes, the 40 amp has the fat wire.
The mustart 40 amp is chugging along fine for 16 or so months. Not overheating. It is the OEM chevy's 12 amp unit that is the concern. It is the one that got hot.
The point of the thread was is that despite the OEM able to run on 240V it is very questionable if it is safe or not.

Correct on the 14AWG for 15amp circuits in a home wiring such as ceiling lights, linked smoke alarms and such on a 15amp fuse, and 12 AWG for 20 amp rated circuits.
I believe all wall sockets have 12AWG even tho it is connected to 15 amp receptacles.

 

yes, the 40 amp has the fat wire.
The mustart 40 amp is chugging along fine for 16 or so months. Not overheating. It is the OEM chevy's 12 amp unit that is the concern. It is the one that got hot.
The point of the thread was is that despite the OEM able to run on 240V it is very questionable if it is safe or not.

Correct on the 14AWG for 15amp circuits in a home wiring such as ceiling lights, linked smoke alarms and such on a 15amp fuse, and 12 AWG for 20 amp rated circuits.
I believe all wall sockets have 12AWG even tho it is connected to 15 amp receptacles.

terrible misunderstanding and misinformation.
12A of 120v effectively uses ONE leg and one conductor, USA 240 is 2x the energy but it’s also using BOTH L1 and L2, so each conductor is fine. It’s the AMPERAGE that drives up heat, not the voltage anyway. I’d trust the GM oem selection over Mustec eBay special, those melt the charger ports, I’ve never heard of the GM one melting

 

I dont know, my oem evse seems to be fine on 240v. done it many times and does not get Hot to the extreme.
Remember, it is the same EVSE chevy released in europe to run on 240v there. I’m not concerned, they are clipper creek and well designed. Unlike many other aftermarket portable units.

 

yes it will do it, but should it? and as it ages +bends (insulation) will those spaghetti wires inside will hold up.
16AWG is not enough for 12amp.

 

One point to keep in mind, wire size is determined not just by current, but also by distance. Wire size standards for home wiring are not based on such a short distance, or being exposed to the air. Having said that, 16 AWG is probably the absolute minimum, no margin at all. An interesting question is what is the AWG of the output cable on a 2022 unit that is built to be 240 capable?

 

This thread isn’t as good as it could be with actual measurements.

Silicone insulation won’t melt until about 500 F and the copper won’t go until about 2,000 F.

It’s usually poor connection points that cause problems, not the conductors themselves.

 

Just as a point of reference, the 25 foot cord on my Clipper Creek LCS-20 16 Amp Level 2 charger is marked 14 AWG 300V. When charging near full current it is warm to the touch.

 

My 40 amp JuiceBox cable is warm when full power is being drawn. Not certain the wire size., I'll need to see how the cable is marked next time I think of it.

 

Is it UL listed? I promise they didn’t have liberal arts majors feeling like the components identify as good enough.

You make cables thicker and you get old people complaining about how cumbersome it is to handle the cable.

 

The Bolt EVSE cable tangles within a few days. If you
Have to use it everyday at work it must be a pain. I replaced with my Volt EVSE and it’s 5 year neoprene cAble .
Note that IGus cables are rated by DIN for almost twice the amps. The type of jacket also influences the amp rating

 

I've been using my OEM EVSE at 240 volts for a year without issue. I'll continue to do so despite the "risk". This is way more about your personal risk tolerance than it is about whether or not the EVSE is capable of doing it. Keep in mind the type of person I am. When I was a kid I took my plastic Big Wheel off of the BMX jumps like the big kids despite the risk. Now I "live on the ragged edge" by plugging my EVSE into 240 volts. LOL! How have I survived for 40 years?

 

I've been using my OEM EVSE at 240 volts for a year without issue.

4 1/2 years here. Now using two of them at 240V for our two EVs. Thin cord is so easy to manage in our garage. I measured the cord temperature with a handheld IR at 86F during operation.

 

I thought heat due to resistance in the cable is based on the (square of the) current, while voltage remains effectively constant over time? If the OEM EVSE is rated for 12A, does it generate more heat in the cable if it's 12A x 240V vs 12A x 120V?

 

That's correct - the 16 gauge wire is no more dangerous for use at 240V than it is at 120V. The issue, if there is one, would be in the insulation. But I've used the OEM EVSE at 240V for almost 5 years now without any signs of trouble. Mind you, mine is in a garage where its not exposed to direct sunlight (although it can get pretty warm in the garage in the high summer). The cord does get a bit warm in use, but nothing that I'm alarmed about.

As far as cable tangling goes, I solved that by hanging my charge cord from the garage rafters.

 

the question here is not one brand vs the other. Mustart failed at the contact point in the handle, not the wiring.
It is also not about " my OEM works fine on 240V. or the risk I am willing to take.

What I am trying to shine a light on is why GM did not provide a simple adapter to have the 240V input. As it is configured, 16 AWG wire with the rated 300V insulation. Would it have UL certification when used in 240V?
It is ok if some of the components in the control box say 240V rated, but can the rest of the 25' cable support it? Some say sure, I used it for 5 years, but it does not validate it.
Is the European models have 300V rated insulation jacket and 16AWG wire?

I am using it on 240V when I am blocked out of my garage spot and need to run a cord to the outside. Using a non-approved 240V adapted, it works. But don't have a warm and fuzzy feeling when I uncoil that 25' cord, knowing it is 16AWG wire and will push 2880 watts. Thinking that my 1500 watt space heater has better AWG wiring and a much shorter 5' lead.

 

What I am trying to shine a light on is why GM did not provide a simple adapter to have the 240V input. As it is configured, 16 AWG wire with the rated 300V insulation. Would it have UL certification when used in 240V?

Perhaps another data point would be to have a look at what kind of wiring they used for the new officially 240V-capable OEM charger that comes with the 2022 Bolts.

 

I am not sure why all this discussion. I use the charging device from Clipper Creek anyway. I don't remember even testing if the EVSE that came with the Bolt EV works.
If I need to use the EVSE that comes with the Bolt EV, it will be at L1 @8A anyway, because I don't know the state of the circuit I plug in.

 

I don't remember even testing if the EVSE that came with the Bolt EV works.

Mine's never been out of the trunk, and still in its plastic bag.

 

going way back.

2016 Volt 120v EVSE is L1/L2 Conversion Capable

First off, everyone should send a big thanks to forum user NAMJA for trusting me and sending me his brand new 2016 Volt EVSE so I could open it up, poke around in it, and possibly fry it! After exhaustive research of the internal components, I came to the conclusion that it will happily and...

www.gm-volt.com

 

OEM charger 16 AWG to run 12 amp

If that OEM is plugged into a dedicated quality15 A circuit and no extension cord then it is fine at 120VAC.

Electricity is like mountain climbing. When you use a line you over spec it. If your weight and fall would produce 1000 pound load and you had chafing and wear and you wanted 3X to be sure then you'd have to have 3000 or more line. Right? Electric is just the same. You insert for hazards and wear and worse case. Don't forget non-linear components. They don't show on common meters. You need a special meter. Things like EVSE will produce non-linear components.

 

If that OEM is plugged into a dedicated quality15 A circuit and no extension cord then it is fine at 120VAC

That could be a problem. I don't know of any home wired with a dedicated 15 amp outlet anywhere within the home or garage. Any 15/20 amp circuit is going to be shared in some way. The lowest amp circuit I have in my box is 30 amps, which feeds a ceiling fan/heater in the master bathroom. I have gas dryers, so no dedicated circuits there. The oven ranges have dedicated circuits (can't remember their amp rating). The gas furnace (backup heat for a heat pump) might be the only dedicated 15 amp circuit I can think of, and it's hard-wired to the furnace. No outlet available.

 

Any concerns using the stock EVSE at 240v shouldn't be due to the current capacity. The wiring is sized to handle 12A whether it is 120v or 240v. The issue is the voltage rating.

When we talk about AC voltage we are talking about RMS voltage. RMS a way to compare an AC voltage to a DC voltage under a constant load and resistance. The peak to peak of AC voltage is higher than what we all throw around when discussing 120v or 240v home wiring. Peak to peak AC voltage is actually √2 * Vrms. So with our EVSE at 240v the peak to peak voltage is actually around 339v. But the insulation is rated for 300v. So if using 240v you should have 400v or higher rated insulation, not 300v as is on our EVSEs.

That being said, I've used my EVSE at 240v for years, I'm not worried about it, and I'm going to keep doing it.

 

thank you, sweet Jesus.
this is the answer I've been waiting for all this time.

 

Unknown as to quality of power unless tested. I'd generally agree that 240VAC points are dedicated while 120VAC tend to be a collection of points to determine loads.

The dual voltage is more robust. It was designed, labeled and UL listed for dual voltages,


We load test our sites often. (and still have issues)

In a lab you might have perfect power. In real life you have to expect that your power could be low or high. Every summer we have machines that trip the phase monitors.

 

Want to see some dangerous stuff? Watch this video showing it works under water.

Amazon.com: BESENERGY Level 1 EV Charger 15A 110V Portable J1772 Charger 20ft NEMA 5-15 EV Charging Cable Compatible with All EV Cars : Automotive

Amazon.com: BESENERGY Level 1 EV Charger 15A 110V Portable J1772 Charger 20ft NEMA 5-15 EV Charging Cable Compatible with All EV Cars : Automotive

www.amazon.com

 

While it's true that wiring in a wall for a 15 amp circuit has to be 14ga. or larger, the cable going to an appliance usually contains smaller gauge wires, as do common extension cords. These cords cannot legally be covered or permanently attached and fall under a different section of the NEC than house wiring. Running 240v will not appreciably increase the heat generated in the wires, only running more current (amps) will do that. Wires have a rated "ampacity" based on the wires ability to withstand the heat, which is a function of cross sectional diameter, material, and insulation. I've never seen any power wire or cables not rated to at least 300v. Farms and factories commonly use 480v in high power applications and need 600v wire for that.

A major issue with running the OEM EVSE at 240v is that the plug it has is 120v and it's not code to make an adapter which makes it possible to plug a 120v appliance into a 240v receptacle. Many 120v appliances aren't safe to have the large spade plugged into a hot wire, or might catch fire at the high voltage, or both. I would say that replacing the plug on the EVSE would be preferable but you'd lose the possibility of 120v use. GM should have included a 240v and a 120v EVSE.

 

Good point roseberry.

When I converted my Leaf EVSE to 240v, I put a 240v plug on it, and have a 120v adaptor. There's less danger plugging a 240v appliance into 120v than the other way around. Additionally, a common NEMA 5-15 plug is only rated to 15 amps, so adapting it to a 240v receptacle capable of delivering more amps would not be safe. Adapting a 50 amp plug down to a 15 amp one, on the other hand, is much less risky.

 

When I converted my Leaf EVSE to 240v, I put a 240v plug on it, and have a 120v adaptor.

The downside of doing this with the Bolt's OEM EVSE is that you loose its ability to detect overheating in the plug that goes into the A/C wall outlet.

 

I did look at the cable on my JuiceBox 40, and the insulation is rated at 600v.

 

FWIW, the same as the 600v rating on the 240v adapter with the OEM EVSE that came with my 2022 Bolt EUV.

 

That guy PackardV8 here may be onto something when he said 300V insulation jacket is reserved for 120V. and 600V insulation rating for 240V cords
see the picture attached of the charging leads comparing 120V OEM vs a Mustart 40A rated 240V EVSE. I intentionally put my finger in the pic for size comparison.
Wire size is printed on the cables.

I plugged in the OEM into 240V adapter and started charging the BOLT.
Texas temp today at 6.40pm is 91 degrees. The cord got warm to the hand within 10 min.

There was a spot where the sun was shining on the black cord and it got much hotter.
Considering skin temp is 96-97 degrees, the cord was likely much over 100+ degrees. May not be a big deal.

The OEM charger @ 240 12Amps is 2880W vs mustart L2 is 240V 32Amp is 7480W

Also looking at the internal wires sizes OEM 3x 16AWG +1 18AWG vs. 2x8AWG 1x10AWG 1x16AWG
My concern is the OEM charger 16 AWG to run 12 amp is cutting it close.

View attachment 41844

Chinese wire typically has way thicker insulation than it's Mexican cousin, so it looks like 10 AWG but it's really 18 AWG. Don't believe me? Buy a roll of zip wire off Amazon.

And 12 amps is 12 amps, regardless of the voltage, it's the same amount of heat dissipation. I've yet to see a report of a burning OEM charger. But I've personally seen it's cord melt in to the snow after an overnight charge.

All wire gets warm. That's life. If the insulation is rated, it's fine.

It's the connectors in the mustards that you gotta watch. They undoubtedly go down to a tiny contact area and just start scorching. By the time the handle is hot, the damage is probably done.

 

Ener X just had to replace my JuiceBox 40 because the contacts in the plug started arcing. I also noticed the plug nearest the car was really warm when charging. Had never noticed it that warm before. At first I thought it was the car connector, but after testing at other charging stations it was only arcing on mine. Since I got it through my utility provider under a contract, free replacement and had a new one installed in a few days.

 

I'm certainly in favor of 3rd party EVSEs for daily use. That said, if you can get a $20 adaptor that allows the stock one to connect to 240v while on the go, I'm all for that too.

As I said before, I modified my Leaf EVSE for 240v and put a NEMA 14-50 plug on it. I don't have a 14-50 receptacle (or an EV for that matter) at my current house, so I bought a NEMA 14-50 to 14-30 adaptor. Since I want to be able to charge on a standard 120v outlet, I also got a 14-50 to 5-15 adaptor. No danger there as the EVSE is limited to 12A.

 

I'm certainly in favor of 3rd party EVSEs for daily use. That said, if you can get a $20 adaptor that allows the stock one to connect to 240v while on the go, I'm all for that too.

I've seen lots of reports of problems with third-party chargers here, but not a single complaint about the OEM charger, even among people like myself who use it with 240V. For going on 5 years now, for me.

People can bicker as long as they want about theory, but everyone's actual experience makes a pretty strong argument, IMHO.

 

In Post #1, at least the cable shown on the left if 'legal' for a 240V appliance because its insulation is rated '600V'.
We don't see if the cable on the right has that rating.
It is probably printed just above where the picture stops. If it has a '300V' rating that makes it 'legal' for 120V usage.

Just talking legality here in 'Ratings' and how manufacturers have to follow the rules.
I know,,,, "But I've dodged the bullet for 4.5 years. My L1 must be fine!".