[shrox]

We're really considering getting this, but honestly I don't know I could relax enough using it to make it a worthwhile thing to have.

 

[Tolb]

I have used the comma 2. It's hard to explain.. but it is a relief after you get used to the initial vibes of situations it doesn't do well.. the relief of attention fatigue for me was only worth it if drove more miles than I actually do.. thus it ended up being an expensive experiment.. but I don't regret trying it out.

 

[shrox]

I have used the comma 2. It's hard to explain.. but it is a relief after you get used to the initial vibes of situations it doesn't do well.. the relief of attention fatigue for me was only worth it if drove more miles than I actually do.. thus it ended up being an expensive experiment.. but I don't regret trying it out.

I wondering about to being able to do the stopping and accelerating, my wife can steer, but her right foot has a painful condition, so I drive every where she go.

 

[rainycoffee]

I wondering about to being able to do the stopping and accelerating, my wife can steer, but her right foot has a painful condition, so I drive every where she go.

Unfortunately in my experience the lane centering is way better than the “longitudinal control” (i.e. go and stop pedals.)

It’s a pretty good lane centering implementation, and OK adaptive cruise control, but beyond that I keep it on a short leash.

 

[shrox]

Unfortunately in my experience the lane centering is way better than the “longitudinal control” (i.e. go and stop pedals.)

It’s a pretty good lane centering implementation, and OK adaptive cruise control, but beyond that I keep it on a short leash.

Thank you for the first hand info.

 

[hrmwrm]

i'd be worried about getting into an accident with it and what happens with your insurance if it's found.
does comma take any liability for their product?
your pretty much a part of an illegal experiment.
haven't heard him say he passes any regulations anywhere.

i like gizmos, but this is a juul experiment again.
supercruise has to pass certain standards before it can be implemented.
this hasn't passed any.
like juul trying to dispense regulated products without passing and following regulations and the disaster that was.
like "self driving" teslas crash. 😂
all about the money only.

 

[Tolb]

Much less likely to cause cancer tho..

 

[rainycoffee]

i'd be worried about getting into an accident with it and what happens with your insurance if it's found.
does comma take any liability for their product?
your pretty much a part of an illegal experiment.
haven't heard him say he passes any regulations anywhere.

i like gizmos, but this is a juul experiment again.
supercruise has to pass certain standards before it can be implemented.
this hasn't passed any.
like juul trying to dispense regulated products without passing and following regulations and the disaster that was.
like "self driving" teslas crash. 😂
all about the money only.

I’d do your own research for sure, but the reading I’ve done indicates that if you get in a collision and your ADAS (advanced driver assistance systems) failed you somehow, you as the driver are still ultimately responsible for not avoiding the collision. Comma would not and need not take any liability for the accident.

I haven’t encountered specific legislation that covers such fringe activity as integrating an open source ADAS into your lane-keeping camera, so I’m not certain what laws would be broken (at least in states like mine where there’s no inspection requirement).

When I’ve read up on openpilot’s development, they cite portions of the FMVSS that they comply with. Doesn’t sound like it’s an external test certification but rather development and product behavior standards.

 

[redpoint5]

i'd be worried about getting into an accident with it and what happens with your insurance if it's found.

You think your insurance would increase more by having a safety device while getting into an accident instead of just getting into an accident without it? That's seriously what you're worried about?

 

[NortonCommando]

....
your pretty much a part of an illegal experiment.
....

Why is that?
Where is it written that an individual can't attach a gizmo to his personal car?

How are these 'certified' driver assist systems certified?

We have seen many many tesla 'collisions'. "We don't call the accidents anymore An accident implies that nothing could be done." (extra points for the reference)
Are there any recorded SuperCruise collisions ?

 

[shrox]

(extra points for the reference)

 

[hrmwrm]

You think your insurance would increase more by having a safety device while getting into an accident instead of just getting into an accident without it? That's seriously what you're worried about?

an UNTESTED safety device?
it's for convenience.
like i said, i'd worry about the legality of the product.
you don't know what it will do.
you just hope it does what it says it does.
show me the statistics of it's safety.
none to be had.

 

[redpoint5]

an UNTESTED safety device?
it's for convenience.
like i said, i'd worry about the legality of the product.
you don't know what it will do.
you just hope it does what it says it does.
show me the statistics of it's safety.
none to be had.

It is tested, by the manufacturers. The device uses the manufacturers ADAS.

It's like being extra nervous to get into an accident while having an automatic braking system vs not having that system at all, and then something something insurance.

There's always someone on the internet portraying the insurance industry as a marauding pack of thugs, randomly checking if any tire is 2 PSI above recomendation so they can break thumbs.

Nobody asked for uninformed theories of how insurance works in a thread about Comma AI, which is why I mock all ignorant comments about it.

 

[hrmwrm]

It is tested, by the manufacturers. The device uses the manufacturers ADAS.

It's like being extra nervous to get into an accident while having an automatic braking system vs not having that system at all, and then something something insurance.

There's always someone on the internet portraying the insurance industry as a marauding pack of thugs, randomly checking if any tire is 2 PSI above recomendation so they can break thumbs.

Nobody asked for uninformed theories of how insurance works in a thread about Comma AI, which is why I mock all ignorant comments about it.

what manufacturer tested it?
put up the results then.
i'll wait.

 

[rainycoffee]

what manufacturer tested it?
put up the results then.
i'll wait.

I know there are a few of us on this forum with comma devices; I can’t recall who is speaking from experience vs. impressions. To offer my firsthand experience of a year of usage with probably 8-9,000 miles driven with a Comma 3x at this point (using OPGM, FrogPilot, and most recently the Chevy Bolt-specific fork StarPilot):

1. Manufacturers don’t test OpenPilot / Comma. It’s fully a 3rd party DIY man-in-the-middle hack of your car’s lane keep assist (and adaptive cruise control, if you have it)
2. The way OpenPilot works is it sits in between your lane keep camera and the rest of the car computers. When active, it augments the normal lane keep camera signals and sends turning and accel/decel commands based on what it sees ahead of it. While the stock lane keep system and adaptive cruise are tested by GM yes, they have never tested it with OpenPilot. Fully a caveat emptor situation.
3. That said, OpenPilot does what it can to offer a safe model for driver engagement. Pressing brake at any time disengages. You can directly steer around potholes collaboratively with the system. They limit the amount of torque the system can command so an average driver can override it when the system gets it wrong. You can read their safety outline for details:

openpilot/docs/SAFETY.md at master · commaai/openpilot

openpilot is an operating system for robotics. Currently, it upgrades the driver assistance system on 300+ supported cars. - commaai/openpilot

github.com

4. They make it clear you’re the driver and this is only a level 2 assistance system. This involves an EXTREMELY CLEAR first run experience that table-thumps that you’re responsible for your car’s safe operation. It warns you as much to always watch it, and it’ll disengage the system if you spend much time looking at your phone or dozing off. (Driver facing camera)

It’s not a system for everyone, and it has things it’s been good at over the last year (adding highway lane centering and adaptive cruise to a 2017 that never came with it!) and things where it overpromises and frightens (city driving 😱).

For folks who know the compromise between promise and letdown that beta software offers, and who can afford the price of entry and are curious, it’s an interesting experiment to say the least. I don’t recommend it generally. It’s not a finished polished product. You’ve gotta be tech oriented, comfortable with reading some discord channels and dealing with different software forks and updates and whatnot.

And, I never forget I’m the driver responsible for my family’s safety, even though I appreciate how it reduces how much effort I have to put into steering the car on a long road trip. I’ve used it on probably every drive longer than 40 mins for the last year - with one or two hands on the wheel at all times, still!

 

[shrox]

I know there are a few of us on this forum with comma devices; I can’t recall who is speaking from experience vs. impressions. To offer my firsthand experience of a year of usage with probably 8-9,000 miles driven with a Comma 3x at this point (using OPGM, FrogPilot, and most recently the Chevy Bolt-specific fork StarPilot):

1. Manufacturers don’t test OpenPilot / Comma. It’s fully a 3rd party DIY man-in-the-middle hack of your car’s lane keep assist (and adaptive cruise control, if you have it)
2. The way OpenPilot works is it sits in between your lane keep camera and the rest of the car computers. When active, it augments the normal lane keep camera signals and sends turning and accel/decel commands based on what it sees ahead of it. While the stock lane keep system and adaptive cruise are tested by GM yes, they have never tested it with OpenPilot. Fully a caveat emptor situation.
3. That said, OpenPilot does what it can to offer a safe model for driver engagement. Pressing brake at any time disengages. You can directly steer around potholes collaboratively with the system. They limit the amount of torque the system can command so an average driver can override it when the system gets it wrong. You can read their safety outline for details:

openpilot/docs/SAFETY.md at master · commaai/openpilot

openpilot is an operating system for robotics. Currently, it upgrades the driver assistance system on 300+ supported cars. - commaai/openpilot

github.com

4. They make it clear you’re the driver and this is only a level 2 assistance system. This involves an EXTREMELY CLEAR first run experience that table-thumps that you’re responsible for your car’s safe operation. It warns you as much to always watch it, and it’ll disengage the system if you spend much time looking at your phone or dozing off. (Driver facing camera)

It’s not a system for everyone, and it has things it’s been good at over the last year (adding highway lane centering and adaptive cruise to a 2017 that never came with it!) and things where it overpromises and frightens (city driving 😱).

For folks who know the compromise between promise and letdown that beta software offers, and who can afford the price of entry and are curious, it’s an interesting experiment to say the least. I don’t recommend it generally. It’s not a finished polished product. You’ve gotta be tech oriented, comfortable with reading some discord channels and dealing with different software forks and updates and whatnot.

And, I never forget I’m the driver responsible for my family’s safety, even though I appreciate how it reduces how much effort I have to put into steering the car on a long road trip. I’ve used it on probably every drive longer than 40 mins for the last year - with one or two hands on the wheel at all times, still!

We have a 2020 Premiere, and I'm really thinking about getting it. Is there a forum where I can get help with it. I used to be good with tech, but I'm olde I'm a little more cautious. I don't want DIY to become DIwhy did I do that.

 

[rainycoffee]

We have a 2020 Premiere, and I'm really thinking about getting it. Is there a forum where I can get help with it. I used to be good with tech, but I'm olde I'm a little more cautious. I don't want DIY to become DIwhy did I do that.

One of the challenges with keeping up with OpenPilot is that it all seems to be Discord based. Multiplayer chat rooms.

• official OpenPilot discord - I don't personally find it very useful since Bolts w/o adaptive cruise control (ACC) aren't officially supported by the main OpenPilot project, but there's discussion here about driving model improvements, hackathons, and other comma goings-on and development.
• OpenPilot enthusiasts - "unofficial" community discord. Among many other things, this is where you can find folks talking about the "OPGM" (open pilot, GM) fork that adds pedal interceptor support, which is an extra piece of hardware most non-ACC Bolt folks end up adding.
• FrogPilot discord - while OPGM is pretty much "basic openpilot with pedal interceptor support", FrogPilot (FP) adds a bunch of quality of life settings, features, and doodads. This is also where StarPilot discussion happens since StarPilot is a Bolt-specific version of FrogPilot, with some Bolt-specific steering tuning. I've heard it recommended that folks start with something basic like OPGM first, then only after a month or so of getting used to it, try something more full featured like FP. Otherwise it's easy to find yourself flipping settings that don't actually improve your quality of life and actually make it harder to figure out what went wrong.

In case it helps decisions, I found Transport Evolved's video on installation helpful to get a sense of the scope of the project.
Extra in case it helps, at one point I wrote out the steps for my own install but never got around to sharing them. Mostly it was me trying to synthesize what I'd read in various discord channels and adapt it to the specifics of my own 2017 (but your 2020 should be pretty much the same.) Both steps #2 and #4 were awkward positions to faff around in, if mobility and flexibility is a concern for you.

1. 12v disconnect to turn off the Bolt before pulling things apart
2. Pop off the mirror cover, connect harness between LKAS camera and connection to car (harness is the GM or Bolt-specific control box that Comma sells to plug the 3x into your car. This involved a slightly fiddly step of using a set of picks to release one of the connector locking mechanisms)
3. Run RJ45 cable from harness down to pedals (I ended up buying a slightly longer cable than the one that came with the harness kit, I think it was a 10 ft flat cable)
4. In the footwell, install beartech pedal interceptor in between accelerator and connection to car, connect RJ45 to pedal interceptor (again using the picks to release the connector locking mechanisms between the accelerator pedal and the car's cable port)
5. Finagle cables back under the mirror cover, close up the mirror cover, reconnect 12v since we need to drive in the meantime and I did the comma software install out of the car
6. Clean window + stick comma 3x mount to windshield. Wait 48 hours before putting Comma into the mount, to give it time to cure. (Make sure there's enough clearance to slide the Comma up off the mount - I barely left enough space in my install)
7. In the meantime, use a high-power (2 amp) USB-A wall brick to plug in / power on comma 3x to be closer to wifi for the download/install, assuming your garage wifi is as poor as mine
8. Power on, install custom software (not dashcam), install opgm: opgm.cc, select the agnos installer binary
9. After 48 hour wait, mount the comma in the car, plug in.
10. At this point, when driving with the comma plugged in, turn on cruise control, then hit "set" to activate it. Recommend only doing this in a multi-lane situation, like on the freeway or another place where you'd use cruise control. You'll start feeling the wheel "tug" slightly as the car follows the lane. One thing that threw me my first drive is that I didn't realize I had to take my foot entirely off the accelerator for OpenPilot to control speed - with your foot on the pedal, it gives you control of speed.
11. Cancel or brake pedal will cancel cruise control and stop OpenPilot from steering for you.

 

[shrox]

One of the challenges with keeping up with OpenPilot is that it all seems to be Discord based. Multiplayer chat rooms.

• official OpenPilot discord - I don't personally find it very useful since Bolts w/o adaptive cruise control (ACC) aren't officially supported by the main OpenPilot project, but there's discussion here about driving model improvements, hackathons, and other comma goings-on and development.
• OpenPilot enthusiasts - "unofficial" community discord. Among many other things, this is where you can find folks talking about the "OPGM" (open pilot, GM) fork that adds pedal interceptor support, which is an extra piece of hardware most non-ACC Bolt folks end up adding.
• FrogPilot discord - while OPGM is pretty much "basic openpilot with pedal interceptor support", FrogPilot (FP) adds a bunch of quality of life settings, features, and doodads. This is also where StarPilot discussion happens since StarPilot is a Bolt-specific version of FrogPilot, with some Bolt-specific steering tuning. I've heard it recommended that folks start with something basic like OPGM first, then only after a month or so of getting used to it, try something more full featured like FP. Otherwise it's easy to find yourself flipping settings that don't actually improve your quality of life and actually make it harder to figure out what went wrong.

In case it helps decisions, I found Transport Evolved's video on installation helpful to get a sense of the scope of the project.
Extra in case it helps, at one point I wrote out the steps for my own install but never got around to sharing them. Mostly it was me trying to synthesize what I'd read in various discord channels and adapt it to the specifics of my own 2017 (but your 2020 should be pretty much the same.) Both steps #2 and #4 were awkward positions to faff around in, if mobility and flexibility is a concern for you.

1. 12v disconnect to turn off the Bolt before pulling things apart
2. Pop off the mirror cover, connect harness between LKAS camera and connection to car (harness is the GM or Bolt-specific control box that Comma sells to plug the 3x into your car. This involved a slightly fiddly step of using a set of picks to release one of the connector locking mechanisms)
3. Run RJ45 cable from harness down to pedals (I ended up buying a slightly longer cable than the one that came with the harness kit, I think it was a 10 ft flat cable)
4. In the footwell, Install comma pedal in between accelerator and connection to car, connect RJ45 to comma pedal (again using the picks to release the connector locking mechanisms between the accelerator pedal and the car's cable port)
5. Finagle cables back under the mirror cover, close up the mirror cover, reconnect 12v since we need to drive in the meantime and I did the comma software install out of the car
6. Clean window + stick comma 3x mount to windshield. Wait 48 hours before putting Comma into the mount, to give it time to cure. (Make sure there's enough clearance to slide the Comma up off the mount - I barely left enough space in my install)
7. In the meantime, use a high-power (2 amp) USB-A wall brick to plug in / power on comma 3x to be closer to wifi for the download/install, assuming your garage wifi is as poor as mine
8. Power on, install custom software (not dashcam), install opgm: opgm.cc, select the agnos installer binary
9. After 48 hour wait, mount the comma in the car, plug in.
10. At this point, when driving with the comma plugged in, turn on cruise control, then hit "set" to activate it. Recommend only doing this in a multi-lane situation, like on the freeway or another place where you'd use cruise control. You'll start feeling the wheel "tug" slightly as the car follows the lane. One thing that threw me my first drive is that I didn't realize I had to take my foot entirely off the accelerator for OpenPilot to control speed - with your foot on the pedal, it gives you control of speed.
11. Cancel or brake pedal will cancel cruise control and stop OpenPilot from steering for you.

Thak you friend!

 

[NortonCommando]

.....
you don't know what it will do.
you just hope it does what it says it does.
show me the statistics of it's safety.
none to be had.

This is exactly the tesla AP story.

Tesla doesn't have to show safety stats or diddly squat NOW. For some unknown and illegal reasons....
But there are MANY videos 'to be had' of collisions caused by tesla's AP system.
Manufacturers Manu Shcmackers

 

[hrmwrm]

For folks who know the compromise between promise and letdown that beta software offers, and who can afford the price of entry and are curious, it’s an interesting experiment to say the least. I don’t recommend it generally. It’s not a finished polished product. You’ve gotta be tech oriented, comfortable with reading some discord channels and dealing with different software forks and updates and whatnot.

there's the honest part.
thank you.
experiment is what it is.
yes, some aware and tech savvy people who are aware of it's shortcomings and are willing to test it.

i'd probably give it a go myself if i didn't get supercruise, but the extra advance of my systems being factory built also gives me insurance savings.
don't think ones insurance would do well to know it has such a system being used.
how does insurance view these modifications?
so now the million dollar question, if you get in an accident using it, and it's detected, can your insurance be voided?