12 v inverter - unto 1500 watts should be no problem according to a Chevy tech video - the Bolt will "back feed" the 12 volt battery at 1600 watts - clamp a 12v DC to AC converter onto the 12 volt battery and you should be fine - I ran a few AC devices via this inverter to try it out…there isn't a lot of experience with this so far - so be careful and don't come to me if there are any problems.

But this particular unit is now permanently in the trunk of my Bolt…

BESTEK 2000W Power Inverter 3 AC Outlets 12V DC to 110V AC Car Inverter

1500 watts is more than enough to run wifi, charge tablets/phones, and keep a home fridge running (although the fridge will take most of the 1500 watts when it's running).

 

So you just plug it into the cigarette lighter, turn on the car, and plug your fridge in? Would my gas car provide enough juice for this 2000w unit if I leave it running?

To extend the discussion a little, can you charge the system by plugging in 12v solar panels via the cigarette lighter?

 

thanks for guinea pigging yourself. Does the bolt recharge the 12V even when off or do you need to have the car running or something? I don't even know if there is an accessory mode on this thing.

 

I haven't gotten that far - never needed to run it that long so far - worse case - turn the Bolt on, turn off climate control and the radio and just leave it be while you siphon electrons from the 12 volt battery.

 

Nissan has developed a http://blog.nissan-global.com/EN/?p=4866Leaf to Home converter that is available in Japan. The 24 Kwh battery is enough for 2 days or so based on the Japanese living a much more frugal (energy wise) lifestyle than Americans. It probably won't get through 1 day here before you would need to drive it to a charging station that still had power to top it off again. It's certainly viable and I bought my Leaf second hand on the cheap thinking someday it would be my "powerwall".

 

using the Bolt for AC power comes from this thread - and video

http://www.chevybolt.org/forum/10-technical-discussion/11786-very-detailed-video-bolt-systems.html

the relevant portion of the video the discusses this usage is at 10:50 time stamp mark - NOTE: the Chevy representative says it "should work" but "does not sanction" that type of use. So your milage may vary YMMV - don't come to me if there are problems.

 

but if you're in "hilltop reserve mode" - your at 88% capacity when "fully" charged

60 * .88 = 52.8 kWh sitting in the battery…

10% conversion loss from the inverter

52.8 * .9 = 47.52 kWh consumption possible

average US household = 47.54 / 10.182 = /10.182 = 4.66 days of electrical use

47.54 kWh at 1.5 kWh continuous load = 31.7 hours of back up power - I would venture that you'd get a solid 48 hours of usage out of Bolt if you're running stuff off a 1500 watt 12v DC inverter.

thus making the Bolt a reasonable short term power solution and an awesome camping machine, truly awesome for tail gating if you want AC power.

it's interesting to note that 1500 watts is just about the amount of power on a typical US household 120v/15 amp circuit - 120 volts * 15 amps = 1800 watts.

 

David M O'Rourke,

This is relevant to this discussion, as well as others about Bolt behavior.

http://www.motortrend.com/news/chevrolet-bolt-ev-engineers-reveal-11-cool-facts-car-year/

"The Bolt EV does not creep when in one-pedal high-regen mode, so it’s easy to forget you’re in gear and hop out. To prevent this, here’s what happens: Unclick the driver belt, and the electric parking brake sets; open the door, and the car selects park automatically; walk away, and it shuts itself off after an hour—two if you leave the key in the car."

 

Two hours is a long time for the Bolt to be draining power from the the 12v battery.

 

Good info! To tune it a little more finely, I checked my refrigerator (25 cu ft LG door bottom freezer). It draws 115V 5.2Amps, that's 598 Watts. That leaves enough capacity to run some lights and hook into the heating system (not A/C) and keep the house warm in winter.

 

careful when estiamtely fridge usage - normal usage is pretty manageable - but if your fridge is frost free - the defrost cycle which only occurs every few days will take a much larger amount of power - but for most usage fridges don't use more than 300 watts - but they can be as high as 1200 watts for the defrost cycle.

 

I just went through this scenario as you probably saw in my other thread. I just used a 750W unit I was able to pick up in a neighboring town. Ran the fridge, battery chargers for power tools (was using the flashlight) and two laptops off 750W no problem. Oh also ran a HEPA air filter which uses up to 400W. The latter made an odd sound off the modified sine.

 

If you found a plug to use straight off the converter you could bypass the12 volt system
and use AC voltage >

Run, Forest, RUN.

 

If you needed to run a 3phase lathe maybe

 

A tiny milli-ampere load over a long enough time period will drain any battery, and so you can imagine that putting the low level power drains from the modules, BMS, and other goodies on a 12V battery that cost a few hundred to replace might be a good idea vs tapping the high voltage battery - one that if over-discharged would plate metallic lithium onto the battery electrodes, send series cells into reverse polarity if charging was attempted in such a state, etc - and would cost thousands to repair after such a mishap. Many of these electronics do not have a hard contactor or physical relay disconnect-like switch, but rather just enter a very low power mode, much like the ECM/PCMs in modern ICE cars. Over time, this would be a problem as the state of charge got lower and lower until eventually permanent damage was done.

 

Why not just implement a battery voltage or wattage draw monitor and just isolate the drive battery pack when draw down to some cut-off voltage? Or have a wattage counter to limit backup time. Essentially when the set draw-down criteria is exceeded the car goes to isolation mode and a jump start will be needed. I mean my phone can warn me when I am at low power and even goes to extreme power safer mode. Does not seem that hard to implement.

 

I'm sure that such a design is theoretically possible, but we just don't have the full picture of all the criteria they work from while designing the car. Maybe it's due to having a lot of 12V common of the shelf parts they decided to go this route, or maybe it is harder to achieve a good and low standby/idle current draw for the electronics when you step down for the low voltage electronics from ~400V DC vs. doing the job with 12V DC. I'm sure there is a lot of momentum behind 12V design at the moment as a sort of "ICE vestigial tail" - we may well see 12V fade entirely from the landscape over time.

 

Dc to dc step down converters are common place. Cost is low as long as power output is small, think <1 amp. I just did a quick calc, to supply .3A 12V overhead would take years to draw down a 60KWh battery. There must be a architectural reason.

 

You have to design/engineer for a low or nearly empty battery when parked long duration, not a full one. Find a dc-dc converter that does 400Vdc to 3.3vdc and see what the efficiency is in the tens of milliamp range, and then compare it to a 12vdc to 3.3vdc step down regulator, there may be a difference. Then, you have to account for a true no-load off condition for the HV, which means you need to take into account the additional load of the contactor/relay coil being pulled in at all times while the car is in the off position while parked. On the 12V battery case, you don't have to care enough to design in a physical relay disconnect, because the worst case scenario is an order of magnitude lower impact, just a dead 12V battery. I'm sure they do a series of product design cases when all this is being considered.

 

Did a google search. The Leaf uses the main battery to heat the battery so it is definitely possible to tap off the big 400-600V battery for things. In fact some EV 12V batteries are tiny. But the best reasons I found are:
1) Safety. Emergency responders do not have to cut high power lines just the 12V battery feed.
2) Cost - dinosaur 12v lead acids are cheap.

 

I wish the accessory mode wouldn't allow you to switch to drive and move the vehicle.

The other day I had my wife check to see if I took the keys with the car in Park, if she could move it. I believe it told her the keys were gone, but allowed her to drive away.

 

The other day I had my wife check to see if I took the keys with the car in Park, if she could move it. I believe it told her the keys were gone, but allowed her to drive away.

If you turn the car ON, the keys must be there. If you then walk the keys away from the car without turning it off, the car will stay ON. It does that by design, because if the battery in your key fob fails while you're driving down the freeway at 70 MPH you really don't want the car to shut down on you.

If you don't want someone to drive away with the car, then turn it OFF before you leave it.

 

There is presently a high risk for an epic ice storm with high winds in Southern Ontario that could lead to long-term power outages. In preparation I have tested my backup electricity sources including my portable generator and my 1500W inverter which is powered by my Bolt EV's 12V battery. The photo shows the inverter connected to the Bolt EV. It works great!

My furnace runs on natural gas but requires up to 320W to run the blower, electronics, and thermostat. My fridge and freezer each need less than 200W, so I will be able to connect all three to the inverter at the same time. Having to cycle my Bolt off and on every couple of hours is a pain, but at least it will provide 3 or 4 days of power for heat, fridge, and freezer if required.

 

yeah - that's been corrected in other posts - my apologies for confusing the units.

 

I attached a 150A fuse holder to the little metal shield just in front of the battery. It's conveniently removable (with a single nut) for drilling the mounting holes. I used half of a two foot 2AWG red battery cable (with strenuous conformal bending) to connect the top of the fuse holder to the + battery clamp. I used half of a six foot 2AWG black battery cable, and connected it to the grounding stud on the "firewall". Someone here pointed out (thank you!) that you shouldn't connect the DC-AC inverter to the negative battery terminal, because there is a current sensor from it to chassis ground, and you'll throw a code when you pull "excess" current with an inverter load. The bottom + output from the fuse holder and the - output from the firewall are then connected to a 175A Anderson connector (commonly used for forklift charging). The cables loop under the fuse holder and come up on the driver's side, and the Anderson connector (with its cover) sits in the small space on the driver's side of the fuse holder, ready to be plugged into the DC-AC inverter.

Works like a champ with my (expensive) 1500W true sine-wave inverter and ten foot 2AWG welding cable DC extension. All parts were purchased from Amazon.

Note that I did this after buying a pre-made wiring set for my Volt. It works great. That company does not yet have a solution for the Bolt, so I made my own.

 

I attached a 150A fuse holder to the little metal shield just in front of the battery [...] so I made my own.

Sounds terrific! Could you post photos?

 

Requested photos. Can't see the ground attachment, nor the bottom of the fuse holder, but the described process should be clear. Probably could have used the much smaller 120A Anderson connector, but I'm a belt-and-suspenders kind of guy, and opted for the 175A model to be certain.

I like how the fuse holder conforms to the angle of the chassis, and provides adequate clearance. Lucky happenstance.

I also added some rubber to the red power cable where it comes closest to the big electrical connector bracket to the passenger side of the battery.

The battery positive terminal cover flap also needed some trimming.

 

So which bolt at the positive terminal are you attaching the cable to ? One is smaller , maybe 1/4" or 3/16" - thanks - Dave

 

Parts list, from Amazon:

2AWG Battery cables - [ame]https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B075SHTY3H/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1[/ame]

Fuse holder (with 150A fuse) - [ame]https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01CT4ZJHS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1[/ame]

15' 2AWG Welding cable for DC extension - [ame]https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0167K786A/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s01?ie=UTF8&psc=1[/ame]

175A Anderson cover - [ame]https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B077SQ862P/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s02?ie=UTF8&psc=1[/ame]

175A Anderson connector - [ame]https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B017U4P9U4/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o02_s03?ie=UTF8&psc=1[/ame]

If you're OK with the 120A Anderson connectors, they come in pairs, with covers -

[ame]https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MS4YJTE/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o07_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1[/ame]

Very expensive, but well-regarded 12V DC to 120V AC 1500W pure sine-wave inverter -

[ame]https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00AYH686E/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1[/ame]

As always, I assume no responsibility for damage, injury or death from fiddling with your Bolt.

Full disclosure, I threw a trouble code which illuminated the "check engine" light when I attached to the positive battery terminal. (It sizzled a bit, even with the car "off".) The check engine light went off after a couple of drives, but no doubt the techs will find the trouble code when I have the recalls done.

 

Or you could just get yourself a small generator. It would probably cost less than $200 and save messing with your Bolt.

 

If you have a generator you also have to have gasoline for it, if you want to be able to run your generator for as long as the Bolt would provide power you'd need a decent amount of gasoline and a place to safely store it.


You could conceivably run a 1500W inverter at full load from a full Bolt battery for 38 hours. Of course you really can't because you lose some energy with the DC/DC conversion and while pure sine wave inverters are generally very efficient you'd lose some there to so let's say you could provide 1500W for 30 hours.

To run a Honda EU2200i (similar output as a 1500W inverter) for 30 hours at it's rated load you'd need almost 10 gallons of gasoline. Most people, if they have anything, has a 2.5G gas can (that's what I have).

Also, if you have gasoline stored you need to either rotate it by using it in an ICE and replenishing it or use some kind of fuel stabilizer (even then you should rotate it every year or so).

Granted, even mild "prepper" types are going to have that kind of gasoline on-hand anyways.

 

I started on this odyssey by considering a $7000 10kWh Tesla PowerWall for power backup in an emergency. I live in earthquake country, and it's a matter of when, not if, the grid is taken down by one for an extended period.

Then I realized that I already have the equivalent of six of them sitting in the driveway in the Bolt. I also have another PowerWall worth of battery storage in the Volt, along with the equivalent of nine more in its gas tank. Ten gallons more of gas in the garage gives me ten more PowerWalls of storage. That's a total of 26 PowerWalls of energy storage capacity. To put dollars to it, that's $182,000 worth of PowerWall storage equivalent in my two cars plus 10 gallons of gas, if I can only tap into this 260kWh of energy.

Enter the inverter setup, which came in at about eight hundred bucks. Sounds like a lot, but look at what I got. Yes, I know that it can be done more cheaply, but like I said...I'm a belt and suspenders type of guy. In an emergency, I want bullet-proof. If I can keep usage around 3kWh per day, this should get me *at a minimum* a month of emergency backup power.

BTW, the Volt is a real handy, quiet and clean, transportable electric generator, with the relatively simple addition of a 1500W sine-wave inverter. Installed in less than an hour. The Bolt took longer...

BTW, the Honda generator mentioned above is a thousand bucks.

 

A reminder...you can't get 60 kWh out of these systems. There are inefficiencies in the DC-DC and the inverter, and standby losses from the Bolt's 12V systems....you might get 60-70% out at high loads, at low loads you will drop to closer to 50% system efficiency.

Think 300W for 100 hours, or 600 W for 60 hours, etc. Conservatively.

And I think the highest continuous load is ~1150-1200W AC, above that you will start to draw the AGM down.

 

Yup. It's why I derated the 260kWh total in my "system" to about 100kWh. (3kWh a day for 31 days.)

I've also read elsewhere here that GM engineers have indicated that the DC-DC in the Bolt is capable of 1600W. The Volt's is, too. That's why the company that makes the Volt inverter wiring harness states that a 1500W inverter is the maximum usable, and provides 120A Anderson connectors. 120A at 12V is 1440W. Barely adequate, in my estimation, although I wouldn't anticipate pulling 120A, except for surge motor startups.